Internet Horology Club 185
Two of a Kind Burlington Battleship Cases! Unexpected "Cousins" Pocket Watches!

This topic can be found at:
https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8881029912/m/434100603

June 26, 2010, 08:10
Lindell V. Riddle
Two of a Kind Burlington Battleship Cases! Unexpected "Cousins" Pocket Watches!

Earlier this week we had a second of the uncommon narrow-stripe 992-Elinvar Hamiltons in our IHC185 Auctions, it was the second in as many weeks.

Then this developed, earlier this month Marnie Cummings sold a Triple-Hinge Burlington Hunter with a battleship on the case-back. Right now David Abbe has the Open-Face version, featuring the same battleship design.


LINK TO MARNIE'S SOLD ITEM: ILLINOIS BURLINGTON 16-S/21-J "BATTLESHIP" (SOLD TO ROGER STEPHENS)

LINK TO DAVID'S NOT YET SOLD ITEM: Illinois 16-size 21-Jewel Rare Battleship Case


I thought this was pretty remarkable, so here's a "wake-up" call to Roger Stevens, hey Roger, you just might want to (HINT!) have Wink these Burlington cousins, David's auction closes tomorrow!


Marnie's (now Roger's) Hunter and David's Open-Face...


June 26, 2010, 08:10
Lindell V. Riddle

Here are the case numbers, note that Marnie's (now Roger's) Triple-Hinge Hunter is number 4049047 and David's Screw-Bacik-And-Bezel Open-Face number 4067820 is just a bit higher. By the way, if Roger ends up with the pair I might have an Open-Face Burlington dial to complete the Open-Face for authenticity.


Again, here is the Hunter and Open-Face comparison...


June 26, 2010, 11:42
Buster Beck
WoW Roll Eyes

That sure would make a nice pair to have and Lindells offer is very generous Roger Eek

regards,
bb
June 26, 2010, 15:13
Mike LaForest
That is just bizarre that these 2 watch cases would show up like this. Good eye, Lindell!
June 26, 2010, 20:34
David Abbe
If someone in IHC wins my eBay listed Burlington, I will try to get a correct Burlington dial on it (for whatever it costs extra) if they want.
June 27, 2010, 05:33
Roger Stephens
Maybe it will end up in my collection.I wonder what exactly the ship depicts? I can see it is a steamer but other than that?
_________________________________

Posted June 28, 2010 09:59
Well, I missed that one in the last 3 seconds and by 8 bucks.Darn Ebay!!!

_________________________________
June 27, 2010, 09:21
Tom Brown
My guess would be the USS Maine.

Tom

01

June 27, 2010, 11:58
Roger Stephens
You might just be right.Thanks,Tom
June 27, 2010, 12:41
Harold Visser
Interesting watch story goes with the USS Maine. Admiral Sigsbee was the captain of the USS MAINE when it went down in the Havana Harbor during the Spanish-American war. At the time he was carrying a SER.III Howard #12,772, that went down in the sea with the ship. It was recovered, put in a jar of kerosene and brought back to life by his watchmaker Joseph Carr of Washington DC. Carr stated it was brought back to an accuracy of less then 10 seconds per month! Sigsbee carried this watch throughout his career for almost 4 decades, I've been looking for this #12,772 for years, it's not at the Smithsonian or the Naval Acedemy, the one remaining relative, a great,great niece said she does not know either where it could be. The picture shows Sigsbee in the front row on the left, the watch was undoubtably at the end of that watch chain of his.....
Anyway, that's my little USS Maine story.
Harold


June 27, 2010, 12:48
Harold Visser
Here is an Scribners magazine ad by the Keystone Howard Watch Co. of Admiral Sigsbee and his early Howard. Notice there is no mention of the fact that Sigsbee's watch was an early true Howard, not a Keystone Howard watch which have nothing at all in common with the real Howard watches.


June 27, 2010, 13:50
Phillip Sanchez
Harold, Wonderful story. thanks for sharing.

In your post above the guy standing to the Admiral's immediate left looks just like
Mike LaForest Big Grin
June 27, 2010, 16:06
Tom Brown
After looking at this again I would bet it is the Maine, 3 stacks, two masts & the gun ports etc on the side.

02

June 27, 2010, 16:17
Harold Visser
Tom, I think the Maine only had two stacks not three, with two masts.


June 27, 2010, 16:44
Roger Stephens
According to Naval records there are actually 4 ships named USS Maine.The first was sunk in 1898 and only had two stacks and two sails.The second launched 1901 had three stacks and two sails she was de-commisioned in 1920.The third servered in WW2 and the last is a nuclear submarine still prowling the seas!!! Thanks to everyone for their input.Roger
June 27, 2010, 17:24
Tom Brown
Thanks Harold & Roger.

The image I posted I got from a web site that identified it as the USS Maine but apparently they were wrong.

I am guessing the 3 stack ones were of the Virginia class battleship, at least from what I can find. It looks like they would have been B-13/BB 13 Virginia
B-14/BB 14 Nebraska (ex Pennsylvania)
B-15/BB 15 Georgia
B-16/BB 16 New Jersey
B-17/BB 17 Rhode Island

I also guess it still might be the Maine since it was the cry to remember the Maine & the engravers added one too many stacks?

Tom
June 27, 2010, 18:02
Richard Romero
Tom,

Great eye and attention to detail. I had looked at the watches many times and didn't notice the third stack. I came across this link which explains how the second USS Maine's appearance had changed over time.

Once at the site go to Third Division and click on the Maine link.

USS Maine (Battleship # 10, later BB-10), 1902-1922

RR


USS Maine 1918


June 27, 2010, 18:06
Lindell V. Riddle

The references Tom and Roger found to the second "USS Maine" may be our most likely. Described as "...launched 1901 had three stacks and two sails she was de-commisioned in 1920..." fits with the time-frame of these cases and the cases look a lot like the image Tom found earlier. Now the one Richard found looks to be the one, great stuff!

But also notice some of the other ships on Richard's link are also quite similar to the one on the cases.

Now check this Complete Burlington Catalog that Steve Gossard posted, inside the front cover a long reference to the thousands of Burlington watches on Navy vessels! (See below this posting.) That may help to further explain the engraving on these cases, then the first page touts "Burlington Watches in the U.S. Navy" and a similar ship to the ones we are discussing although not nearly so elaborate is shown as item 23 on page twelve of Steve's catalog.

(By the way, the auction is at $171.50 and that is probably Roger as high bidder.)

All your research is Wink amazing!


June 27, 2010, 18:34
Tom Brown
Richard

Thanks for finding that info., the site I obtained the 1st image from had the wrong identification apparently, the three stack image they identified as the Maine that was sunk but now we know it was the 2nd USS Main.

Tom
June 27, 2010, 19:00
Harold Visser
I guess we're never to old to learn something new.......
June 27, 2010, 19:32
Tom Brown
Harold

I did some searching through old newspapers about Admiral Charles Sigsbee & his watch. I didn't find anything other than the ad you posted.

I wonder if the watch was buried with him since he & it had some history together?

Tom

03

June 27, 2010, 19:46
Tom Brown
Something I just noticed in the above ad with a copy of the Admiral's book. It is suppose to be the Maine & it has 3 stacks?

Tom

04

June 27, 2010, 20:49
Harold Visser
Here is a pic I found on Google images, showing Sigsbee and the Maine, a two stacker. I have talked with his great, great niece, the watch did not get buried with him as far as she knows. I made a mistake listing the serial number, it's 12,722 not 12,772. Everybody keep your eyes open for that number please!!!
Harold


June 27, 2010, 22:22
Tom Brown
Great story Harold, hope it gets found.

Also I wasn't doubting the info on the Maine, I just thought it was interesting that his book & the watch cases all have the 3 stacks.

Tom
June 28, 2010, 20:37
David Abbe
The big photo of Main#2 looks like the "model" used to engrave the cases!
September 28, 2010, 16:41
Tom Brunton
Another proud ship ,a four stacker , a warship that carried brave service personnel ,who served their country at risk to life and limb,Maine 2 or 1, or any other battleship,matters not,they were sailor heroes one and all on active service. There appears to be a gun on the fore-deck of this one! and a chained anchor on the bow ,note,The watchcase has the 4 stacker, the picture is the USS Maine #2 Wink

This post in honour of my cousin,Smn Donald (Dan) MacAngus age 19 HM Battleship Royal Oak 1939,my uncle Seaman Alexander MacAngus, age 20 , minesweeper HMT Fleming,1940 and boatswain Donald (Dan) Tarrel,my grandmother's brother ,age 50,SS Baron Dechmont,of Ardrossan,Scotland ,1943,all lost at sea through enemy action WW2, !!! --- the heroes of my life --- Smile a smile because I am so proud of them ,no, a total grin Big Grin


September 28, 2010, 16:50
Tom Brunton
#2


September 28, 2010, 16:50
Tom Brunton
#3 The Mutual Watch Case Co. fully insured -warranted 25 years- 12 size I think ,or 14 Big Grin


October 12, 2010, 16:27
Lindell V. Riddle

Very nice Tom,

Our fascinating hobby takes us in so many different directions, there really is "something for everyone" as the saying goes.

Thanks for sharing your "family connection" with all of us.

Lindell

Wink