where can i find oleic acid {chemical soap]?THANKS

Thank you Debbie that helps. Im making up a clock cleening soluction. Doug

Ammonia which you need to add to it will be your real cleaner for brass, the formula also calls for distilled water.Proportions of the above depends on the amount of dirt.
rgds

thank you Enzo I pulled the formula out of the 1992 bulletin. 8oz. acetone/ 4oz.conc. ammonia/4oz.oleic acid/48oz. water. Doug

Douglass,

Be wary when using ammonia on antique watch or clock plates.
It's a good cleaner, but there have been many (sometimes very heated) discussions regarding the ability of the fluid to degrade the molecular structure of brass.

If you 'google' amonia and clock cleaning, i'm sure you'll bring up plenty of hits.
I know it caused quite a big argument amongst some BHI professionals a while back

Best regards

John.

John/Doug,

that is an interesting argument to know more about...my very old w/m friends had never reported to have noticed a brass attack due to the use of it but that doesnt mean much....at the end if this has raised worries surely something could be true....what is the alternate suggested cleaner then?
tnks rgds

Enzo,
I still use ammonia in my solution, but it's a proprietory brand by the name of Horolene. I use it with great caution and never leave stuff in it for long - and parts are then washed thoroughly and dried immediately.

If a corner of a plate is out of the solution during a soak, it will leave a 'tide mark' that is almost impossible to get rid of without serious polishing.

I also once left a dismantled watch movement in a parts tray, and unbeknown to me, a spot of horoloene had dropped onto a couple of the train wheels - it ate them in no time - exit one Swiss cylinder movement!

When I was a member of the BHI, they had a members forum (mailing list), and the arguments about the stuff amongst the members and fellows were monumental - especially amongst the serious conservators.

The link I've posted below will take you to a page which describes long term damage to brass parts on both watches and clocks, it's very interesting reading.
If you want to read more, try googling 'ammonia brass damage' !

The concensus, is that a watch / clock would expire from old age long before it would be rotted away by the ammonia content - but it's all relative to the strength of the solution and the time parts are immersed!

My opinion is; forewarned is forearmed and use the stuff with respect.

Best regards

John

http://www.orologeria.com/english/magazine/magazine7.htm

John,

tnks, i read it throughout and understood the type of worries it gives. I figured that old manufactured components are proner to deterioration than current ones, it maybe due to the ancient brass composition formulas. Today Maillerchort type of brass is maybe less prone to ammonia corrosion. I noticed that old w/m's are used to prepare the bath according to formulas based on their own experiences but at moment I cant tell which. Surely i will ask and post.
Anyhow i will refrain to use it on ancient parts from now on.
tnks rgds

Enzo

Enzo,

I think you'll be ok using it on anciant parts - everything I work on is ancient anyway.

The main precaution - and just my opinion based upon using the stuff, is to ensure the mix isn't too strong, that the bits aren't left in it too long (maybe a few minutes at a time tops), that nothing is left exposed to atmosphere (all surfaces totally immersed), and that everything is washed and dried quickly following removal from the bath.

I found that the cleaner does leach copper out of clock plates especially, if left immersed too long, and that's what causes the bad tide marks if a section is left out of the bath.

Used with caution, I think you'll be ok!

Until the transformer burned out, I had a Greiner 380W Ultrasonic unit with 3x baths.
A few minutes in that thing with just soapy water would bring badly tarnished clock wheels up looking as bright as new - without chemical strippers!

I miss that ultrasonic, but it's an old valve based machine and I can't find any circuit diagrams for it to see if I can't change the trasnformer!

John

Just my own way of cleaning...I use straight laundry detergent first. Soaking the parts approximatly 15 to 20 minutes. I rince in hot water and use a air compresorto blow off the moisture and then into a hot air dryer. By doing this, you rid the parts of any wd 40, and keeping intact most laquers. Normally this will do the job and the parts will come out very nice.

There are some greases that this will not remove...so after the air compresor, they go directly into a non-ammoniated cleaner with an ultrasonic. This completes the cleaning, I rinse in hot water, blow off moisture and then the hot air drier.

I have found this to be most effective, cheaper, and I am much happier with the results.

greg