The story of the Hunley watch is quite fascinating. So are the pictures of the Hunley watch, chain, and fob.

On closer inspection of a watch chain in my collection, I noticed a similarity to the Hunley watch chain swivel. Take a look at the following pictures for comparisons.

What do you think? Civil War Era Watch Chain?

Here's a picture of the Hunley watch and chain!

Stephanie O'Neil
NAWCC Member 143979

The Hunley swivel is round, when unscrewed, opens from the center.

Here's a complete view of my watch chain.

Stephanie O'Neil
NAWCC Member 143979

A view of swivel, oval rather than round, in closed position.

Stephanie O'Neil
NAWCC Member 143979

A view of swivel in open position.

Stephanie O'Neil
NAWCC Member 143979

Notice both swivels open from the center.

A closer view of "shepherd's hook" on other end of watch chain may also help in determining period of watch chain. Also note how shepherd's hook closes.

Stephanie O'Neil
NAWCC Member 143979

The watch chain is unmarked. My guess is civil war period.

An interesting as well as fascinating find.

Comments? Opinions?

Stephanie O'Neil
NAWCC Member 143979

Stephanie,

Not only is that an easy to use hook that will not snag clothing... the best part is that it will not mark the bow when taking it on or off. I find designs like that and the extra attention to detail fascinating. Probably not as old as you think but well made and that is what really counts.

By the way, you're doing a really great job with your pictures!

Lindell

Thanks Lindell!

Stephanie O'Neil
NAWCC Member 143979

Hi Stephanie,

From time to time, I have looked for data on Civil War vintage chains, hooks, etc. The last time I checked with the Library, there were no material catalogs from the mid-1800's (1850-1865) available to study.

However, from my observations so far, I'm of the impression you could well have a Civil War vintage item. The shephard's hook appears to have fallen out of fashion in the latter part of the 1800's. Further, there is a photo of Lincoln using a shephard's hook watch chain during the Civil War.

The screw-down clasp was used for some time before and after the Civil War, I'm not sure at which point it was no longer available, but I would suppose this type of clasp survived into the early 1900's for high end watch chains. They are better than snap hooks and must have been more expensive.

You have a nice looking chain. Is it solid or plated?

Best regards,
Greg

A modification of this screw down type swivel was used through the 40's, 50's and 60's on railroad watch chains, and were called 'railroad safety swivels' by the inspectors. (at least they were in my part of the country). I purchased a couple years ago, but unfortunately have none in my collection now. (one was on my great grandfathers watch and chain that was stolen ) I haven't seen one for years. They essentially worked and looked the same way as your original, Stephenie. Regards. Mark

NAWCC Member 157508
NAWCC-IHC Member 163

Hi Greg,
Thanks for the info on civil war era swivels and shephard's hooks. I know this particular chain in question is quite old and I'm thinking civil war era as well! There are no marks on the chain, swivel, or hook. The chain is light in weight. Not sure if solid gold. Did clean up nicely though.

Mark,
Thanks for your input as well! I do know these type swivels are rare. How often to you see them? Rarely. I'm always looking at various pocket watch sites as well as ebay. Are there any members who have swivels of this type attached to their watch chains? I really dig this kind of thing. So fascinating to me.

I recently acquired an interesting watch chain. Was the first one I saw that was silver rather than gold. How much silver, not sure as there are no marking on any part of this watch chain. I haven't cleaned this piece as I like the patina!

I'd like to share this with you. I find this kind of stuff interesting. Hope you do too! And, what's kind of neat about the chain is the T-bar. It swivels. I've never seen one like this either! Take a look!

Stephanie O'Neil
Pocket Watch Moderator
NAWCC Member 143979

The full view!

Stephanie O'Neil
Pocket Watch Moderator
NAWCC Member 143979

Silver "civil war era" watch chain?

Stephanie O'Neil
Pocket Watch Moderator
NAWCC Member 143979

This is the first one with a square section swivel T bar I have seen. I don’t recall seeing anything like this in photographs of the era. In general, it has the look of something more recent than the Civil War era.

This is a human hair watch chain w/screw clasp and a shephards hook in the shape of a hand holding a whip. The watch is Swiss w/a fake British name on the inside back cover (Beasley). The revovler is a Colt M 1849 pocket model made in 1852.





On the back of the watch is engraved a coat of arms showing ships masts, a socket bayonet, boarding axe, and so forth.

Greg,
I thoroughly enjoyed your "civil war" put together. How clever!
The shephards hook is really something. Thanks so much for your picturesque post!

Stephanie O'Neil
Pocket Watch Moderator
NAWCC Member 143979

While we are on the subject of swivels, I have a watch chain I'd like to share that is a bit different. I must admit, I purchased the chain for the unusual swivels!

The pocket watch chain is 37", has screw-open swivels attached to both ends of rolled gold snake link. The seller said the chain was from her grandfather or great-grandfather (can't remember which) who was a german immigrant. In fact, the seller's last name is Vander Heide. Both swivels are marked "german". I have tried to think of how one can wear this chain, particularly since it has a swivel attached on each end. Any ideas? How can this chain be worn? An educated or uneducated guess of age?

Take a look!

Stephanie O'Neil
Pocket Watch Moderator
NAWCC Member 143979

The swivels are quite large and unusual, I've seen none like these! Both are stamped "german".

Comments, ideas, etc. etc.

Stephanie O'Neil
Pocket Watch Moderator
NAWCC Member 143979

One of the rings in the last photo appears not to be soldered. Is that the case? Does anyone else not trust unsoldered rings?

Stu

I recall seeing rings sort of like that attached to an old leather binocular neck strap. The hooks attached to the binocular looked nickle plated.

If a jump ring is thick enough, I see no problem with it being unsoldered. It has been my understanding that in jewelry and watch chains unsoldered jump rings provide a fixed area for the chain to give in case it is suddenly pulled.

Best regards,
Greg

I had a silver chain exactly like this that came with an old German Exacta 33mm SLR camera I purchased back in the 70's. It, too, was a neck chain to hold the camera, and was identical in every way. Impossible to use (VERY uncomfortable to support the camera weight), and I never used it. It was sold with the camera when I traded it in years later. Regards. Mark

NAWCC Member 157508
NAWCC-IHC Member 163

Stephanie
I have a gold plated chain with the same links that your silver one has. Mine has a ring instead of a "T" bar,and a newer style swivel.


Frank

Frank Juchniewicz

Stu,
Good point! I checked my vast collection of watch chains. All but a few appear to have unsoldered rings.

Greg C.,
Thanks for your input. Binocular neck strap possibly, interesting!

Mark C.,
How old was your German Exacta camera as the info may help in determining age of my chain if indeed is like yours. Interesting!

Frank J.,
Thanks for your input!

Other ideas in regard to snake chain/unique german swivels?

Stephanie O'Neil
Pocket Watch Moderator
NAWCC Member 143979

My old Exacta was made in the early 1960's. The chain was probably strong enough to pull a car out of a ditch, but MAN was that thing uncomfortable to wear around the neck when attached to the camera! It was quickly replaced by a wide cloth version. Regards. Mark

NAWCC Member 157508
NAWCC-IHC Member 163