Are there any collector's that just collect watch chains? Would anyone know of any publications that list different types of pocket watch chains?
Thanks

Wayne,

How big of a collection do you have? I've got a few chanins but nothing to write home about. Would love to have a solid gold one.

John D. Duvall
NAWCC Member 144772
NAWCC IHC Happy Camper 192
Chapter 185 Watch Repair Moderator

John
I have about a dozen or so, but none that are solid gold. Some do have interesting designs or attached emblems. I was wondering if they were put together by local jewelers, or if they were manufactured items. But I do have quite of few of this type:

Wayne,
Can`t answer your questions about chains but I think there are quite a few fob collectors.
I like you, have a dozen or so. Mosty plated or brass ones.
Here`s a pic of my two best ones. The one on the left is marked "Simmons" on the swivel. The one on the right has a medallion with Grover Cleveland`s bust on the front and "1893 WORLD`S COLUMBIAN EXPOSITION - Chicago - chain pat. Apr 4 93" on the reverse.
I wonder how ones like the Simmons in the pic were rigged up for use. The chain slides through a large link in the middle of the short chain attached to the bar. This longer portion has a swivel on one end and a spring ring on the other end. Don`t know if a fob was attached to the end of the short piece or to the spring ring.
I don`t really avidly collect them but occasionally see one I like or that is a deal. Some, like the ones with the spinners on them are very interesting.

Kenny

Nice subject. I wish I had more. I did find a nice old coin silver one.

Mike Miller

Another chain & fob:

Well, click on the link below to see what Pat Renwick used in 1898.....


WORLD'S LARGEST POCKETWATCH CHAIN
I am sorry the image is not better... this is from February 1974 Bulletin, Whole #168.
From an article "Shades of Soapy Smith, The Klondike Gold Rush and The World's Largest Gold Watch Chain" By Eugene T. Fuller

This chain was made by Herman D. Kirmse, who came to Skagway in 1897 and hung his watchmaking "shingle".

The chain was commissioned by Pat Renwick from TEN gold nuggets. The finished chain weighed THREE POUNDS.

The story goes Pat liked to gamble and needed some money to cover from time to time. Herman did not want to see the chain melted down, so he made a deal with Pat to use the chain as collateral when he needed to cover his debts. It is stated in the article this could be two to three times a day! Herman and Pat worked out an agreement in that Pat had a combination to a safe on premises.... Herman would either find money or the chain in the safe! This arrangement continued until Pat's death in 1909 when Pat passed away. Herman did find the chain in the safe at this time. Herman asked the widow if she wanted the chain or the money, she decided on the money.

At the time of the article, the chain was still in the Kirmse family.

Herman also constructed the 'smallest' chain also. It is in the picture above the other. It consists of 283 nuggets and is 53 inches in length and weighs about a 1/2 ounce.

At the time of the article, it was also in the family.

This is just a small part of the article...worthy of archiving on the WWW.

Several years ago, right after I bought my first computer, I was "playing" with the scanner and created the attached image. For some reason, my wife thought it was "cool," so I kept it.

I haven't added much to the collection lately, but I did for a number of years after the image below was created, and at that time, I hadn't yet acquired most of my better pieces.

Unfortunately, all of them now reside in safety deposit boxes, and I've never had them all out again together at one place and time!



===================

Steve Maddox
President, NAWCC Chapter #62
North Little Rock, Arkansas
IHC Charter Member 49

Steve, that would make a FANTASTIC jig-saw puzzle!

I don't have a lot of chains, but try to have an appropriate one for each style/color of watch case in my wearable collection. It took me a while to find this two-tone (rose and green gold) chain to go with this watch.

Has anyone seen this one before? The chain is not that special but can you guess what is attached with the key?

Geo
NAWCC #78594
Local Chapter #76

If you guessed magnifying glass you are half right. These "snap" open becoming spectacles to help read the watch. They are marked "F&B Sterling" and have no correction. I think they were store samples.

Geo
NAWCC #78594
Local Chapter #76

the watch chains are fabulous. Thanks to everyone for taking the time to post them. All very interesting.

Steve, Jerry is right. That would make an awesome puzzle. Back when I was wearing a tie every day, I would have thought that would make an excellent pattern for a tie.

great stuff........and I thought only golfers got excited looking over the old links!!

Tom Seymour
NAWCC #41293
IHC #104
IHC Exec.V.P.

Wayne, to get back to your original question, I'll bet that there are chain and fob collectors. A good source to learn more about the great variety of quality and styles available is to look through old Sears catalog reprints or old jewelry catalogs. Here is one page from a reprint of an 1896 Marshall Field & Co. catalog --

I'm not sure if any formal associations exist for people who collect watch chains, but a lot of people do collect them. For me, it's not really that I collect watch chains, it's that I try to match one to all of my pocket watches, so as to make each a "complete" wearable set. Experience has also shown me that watches don't slip out of hands as easily when a chain is attached, and chains have saved some of my watches from nasty falls on several occasions.

One of these days, if I live long enough, I hope to teach people the difference between a "charm" and a "fob." A typical "fob" is a flat piece of metal with a slot through the top, which is suspended from the end of a leather strap (with the watch attached to the other end). Most (though not all) fobs are promotional in nature, advertising heavy equipment, agricultural products, political candidates, etc.

"Charms" are usually made of silver, gold, or gold filled metal, and the most common motifs are fraternal emblems. The essential difference between a "fob" and a "charm," is that a "charm" is intended to be suspended from a chain, rather than a leather strap.

I'm not sure if there are any formal associations for watch charm collectors, but there is at least one prominent group devoted to fob collecting. It's the International Watch Fob Association, and their web site can be viewed at the following link: http://www.watchfob.com/

As for catalog pages, the one in the image below is from an original copy of the 1927 Fort Dearborn & Company catalog. I particularly like the "fat cat" in the center, who appears to be perusing his daily financial section. Note the prices those items sold for at the time (which weren't cheap!), and note also that the items are described at the top of the page as "charms," not "fobs."

===================

Steve Maddox
President, NAWCC Chapter #62
North Little Rock, Arkansas
IHC Charter Member 49

Kenny,

The short bar slips through a button hole in your vest (waist coat) and the short chain should have a charm of some sort at the end and hang down from the button hole, your pen knife goes on the spring ring and in one vest pocket, the watch goes on the snap and goes in the other pocket. The chain is draped over your belly between the two pockets. Anyway, that's how I wore mine until my vest got too small

The chains with a snap on one end, a spring ring on the other, and the bar on a short bit of chain are called Wellington chains. Another version has the charm in the middle of the chain with the bar on one end and a snap for the watch on the other is called a pony chain. A vest chain has a bar on one end and a snap for the watch on the other. This information is from the 1897 Sears catalog reprint. A picture of my Wellington chain is attached. The spring ring can also be used for your desk or strong box key, keeps them ready at hand.

I am also posting a picture of an aluminum chain I got attached to a huge Aurora coin silver hunter years ago. I just found the aluminum chains in the 1985 Montgomery Ward catalog; they cost 25% more than rolled gold plate--$1.25 for aluminum and $1.00 for rgp.

[This message was edited by John Arrowood on August 29, 2003 at 10:16.]

Here it is:

John,
Thanks for the info and pics. All of the watches with chains that I`ve seen were just attached by snapping the swivel hook directly onto the bow. I have heard of a leather tab being used to go thru the bow. This in turn was attached to the swivel somehow. This I suppose was to prevent wear or scratching of the bow. Ever see one like that?
Here is another pic of some charms and fobs. Upper right is an amethyst charm without chain, lower left a sterling initialed chain with belt clip and matching tie bar, lower right two fobs. The one in the upper left is unusual. It may not be a watch chain but it was used for one. Since I find this piece interesting I will quote an email I received regarding it`s history.

"Black Angel Pocket watch Fob
Black memoriabilia"

"XXXXX emailed me about the black angel watch fob you received in her auction..and said you would like more information about it. I
was the donor of this auction item and info as follows..........I got this item from an estate sale in Louisiana and the woman told
me it had hung on a nail near the phone in her Mothers home for at least 60 years(for as long as she could remember) Her mother told
her it was a peice that had belonged to a black man that worked for her, and after he died his son kept the watch but gave the fob
to her to remember her long time friend by. He had this as long as the son can remember and had received it when working on a
plantation in southern La. before he came to work for her. I think it was a gift to him. That is all I really know ,but this will
enlighten you a little. It probally dates to the 20s...but that is just a guess on my part. Hope you enjoy it .Dont think you will
see another one ."

Kenny

Simmons ad from 1946.

Kenny

Kenny,

I believe the "amethyst charm" in your upper right image above, is actually the top portion from an old fancy watch key. I have a few keys of that type around here (somewhere), and if nobody else posts a picture of one, I'll try to do that in a day or two.

The short extra sections on old watch chains apparently were originally intended for the watch key. As times went on, people started having fancy keys made to show fraternal association, etc. Eventually, as key-wound watches became obsolete, so did watch keys, but the idea of the "decoration" suspended from the chains remained popular for several decades. Finally, by the Great Depression, watch fobs largely went out of fashion with the advent of the "Albert" style chain (like Jerry's pink and green gold one above), which went from one vest pocket to the other (through a button hole in the vest), and had no provision for a charm.

================

SM

Steve,
The amethyst charm may have been attached to a key, but is not part of a key. It has a little eyelet built into the bottom. If you zoom in on the side view you will see it. It is made like the "wax seals" you see on Victorian "pin-on" fobs. It has a short piece of chain (approx. 2 in.) that looks to be made on it. That`s how I found it so don`t have any idea what the complete piece would have looked like.

Kenny

[This message was edited by Kenny D on August 30, 2003 at 4:59.]

The leather tabs can be used to prevent the snap on the chain from wearing the bow. My Dad got some a few years ago, maybe from LaRose, they are about an inch long with a brass grommet in each end. The tab is threaded through the bow and folded so that the grommets are together and the snap is threaded throug the two grommets. Here's a picture.

If you have access to a leather punch and some soft leather, you can make your own tabs. They won't have the reinforcing grommets, but will serve the purpose. I have another 12 size watch with a home made tab on it.

[This message was edited by John Arrowood on August 30, 2003 at 6:40.]

Kenny,

The image below shows a fancy pocket watch key like I mentioned above; the inset shows the emerald in the end. I have several of this type in my collection (and heve seen countless others), but this is the only one I can find here at the moment.

For what it's worth, I've also seen old (late 1800s) mechanical pencils with end pieces essentially like the one on the watch key below. I think I may have seen some on ladies hat pins as well, although I'm not sure if they're original, or something made in modern times from old watch keys or pencil parts.

I've never seen a piece of that type that was a watch charm alone, and not a part of something else, but I suppose anything's possible.

Again, I hope this helps!

=============

SM

Steve,
If used as a charm this piece would not display to best advantage since the amethyst stone would hang face down and out of sight.
One thought comes to mind. Could it be the end of a watch chain that you just button into a vest buttonhold? It seems a little too "stocky" for this though. I have a chain that has a button on the end in this manner, however, the button is flatter and of greater diameter.
This might just be some other type of jewelry and have nothing to do with watches. Guess it will remain a mystery. Thanks for your input.



Kenny

Kenny,

The rest of my fancy pocket watch keys are apparently with watches that are in safety deposit boxes right now, and I can't get to them at the moment (night, weekend, etc.) to make any scans. Believe me, though, they did make pocket watch keys (lots of them) with ends exactly like the piece that's attached to your chain above.

Alternatively, however, there's at least one other possibility. As I mentioned before, old mechanical pencils used to have ends like that as well, and I've attached an image of one below to illustrate the point (no pun intended).

Although it may appear to be two different pencils, it's actually just two different views of the same one. The top image shows the pencil with the point extended, as it would be for writing, while the image below shows the point retracted, and the jeweled end piece removed. Obviously, that allows access to the compartment which held the spare leads. Unfortunately, the jewel is yellow (probably glass), and it doesn't show up very good in the images.

As you can see, the piece that's attached to the end of your watch chain looks a lot like the end piece for the pencil below (circa mid 1800s). It wouldn't be much trouble for a jeweler to take either a watch key, or a pencil tip, and simply solder a little cap over the end and put a ring on it where it could be suspended from a chain. As you suggested, it's not an "ideal" situation to display the stone, but it's still an attractive piece.

Again, I hope this helps!



BTW, does anyone else find it as ironic as I do that in the last several days, I've posted family pictures, real estate photos, and now images of a mechanical pencil, and yet I've managed to make them all horologically related? Before long, there's no telling what I'll be posting!



=================

SM

While using my scanning software a few minutes ago, I happened to notice the following image still stored there, which had never been processed. Judging by the fact that about half the charms are upside-down, I'd say my wife probably did it, but I'm not absolutely certain. The date on it says it was made on January 2, 2000, and I can't remember that far back!

In any event, it would probably make a better jigsaw puzzle than the one above.

==========

SM

*I would sell this one