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Below are estimated blocked serial numbers for 16 size 21 jewel Hampdens.These estimates come from the Hampden Watch Co. book and my own research.
The attached Word document contains a table that is easier to read and use.
As with my post of 23j Hampdens I am hoping that the fiqures in the table will be used to update the relative scarcity of these watches in the Price Guide--would the moderator please also place a copy of this thread in the section for updating the Price Guide.
I think there are two surprises in the data.
1) Neither the Grade 555 ( with a dial labelled chronometer ) nor the Chronometer grade are as scarce as prices might suggest. In fact neither is a true chronometer.
2) Many of the 16 size Hampdens are probably scarcer than comparable Hamiltons and Illinois that go for much higher prices.
If anyone has serial numbers for any of the watches marked as reported or ???? would you please post them.
My hope is that by making this information available in a variety of places it will help generate interest in Hampdens.I think it is important that information be shared.
Estimated Block Serial Numbers for
16 size 21 jewel Hampdens
Grade MOVEMENT Estimated Blocked Serial numbers
95 RRG HN5L-5 POS 500
HN4L-5 POS 320
ON4L-5 POS 10,000 plus
ON5L-5 POS 11,000
115 ON5P-3 POS 1,000
120 ON5P-3 POS 2,000
125 ON5P-3 POS 500
260 private label
HN4L-3 POS 100
ON4P-3 POS 200
On dial chronometer
ON5P-5 POS 3,000
HN5P-3 POS 200
ON5P-3 POS 3,000
ON5L-3 POS reported
private ON3P-ADJ 300
JOHN C DUEBER
ON4L-5 POS 1,500
NEW RAILWAY RRG
ON5L-5 POS 5,500
HN5P-3 POS reported
ON5P-3 POS 1,000
HN4L-5 POS 1,800
ON4L-5 POS 3,900
ON5L-5 POS 6,000
ON5P-5 POS 40
16_SIZE_HAMPDENS_Estimated_Block_Serial.doc (46 Kb, 536 downloads) 16 size 21j hampdens
# 1793185 Marked Adjusted To Five positions..
Dbl sunk Mongomery dial Has
Block Lettered HAMPDEN.. Lever Set in a Dueber Special Gold filled hunter case..
Robert, My Hampden grade 120 is SN 3,647,492. It is 21J, ADJ3P, and a model 5. The dial is marked chronometer.
My 16-size 21-Jewel Hampdens...
1587621 - ON4L - William McKinley, Marked Adjusted, Model 4, Hampden Watch Co. on dial.
3305579 - ON5L - Grade 105, Model 5, Adjusted 5 Positions, Hampden on dial.
3459371 - ON5L - New Railway, Model 5, Adjusted 5 Positions, Dueber-Hampden on dial
3696870 - ON5P - "555" and Adjusted 5 Positions, Dueber-Hampden and Chronometer on dial.*
All the above are in marked Dueber cases.
* I once owned 3696810 which was identical to 3696870 in every way.
Hope this is of help.
Could you list the info about your watch similar to Lindell or Tom.
Robert, I also have 16S John C. Deuber, 21J, OF Adj5P, Model 4, SN 2,446,157.
16 21 ON5P 5P 555 ser# 3,696,017
and a 23j
16 23 ON5L 5P N0.104, ser# 3,402,163
|IHC Life Member|
3455849 - 21J Chronometer, Adjusted to Three Positions, Safety Pinion, Double Roller.
I would have given you the ON4L, ON5L, ON5P numbers for the watch but I am not sure what they mean. Open face, Nickel ?????? Sorry.
Your "book description" would be:
16 21 ON5P 3P Chronometer
O = open face
N = nickel
5 = Model 5
P = Pendant set
3P = adjusted to 3 positions
Grade = Chronometer
I also have a chronometer
16 21 ON5P 3P Chronometer Ser# 3,455,476
|IHC Life Member|
Thanks for the education.
Model 5 (Series 5 in the 'book')
Your Wm Mckinley is not only rare but it is from a previously unknown run. Would it be possible to post pictures of your watch.
There may have been only about fifty of these produced?
Just amazing, and many of us as Railroad Watch Collectors would not even bother because at first glance it does not have the "look" of a Railroad Watch. Before Bob did his Hampden movement number work-ups I had no idea it was anything special. I urge everyone to check over their 16-size 21-Jewel Hampdens and add them to the list.
I recall buying this watch because of its originality and condition.
Here is the dial and nicely engraved Dueber hinged case-back...
21-Jewel 'Wm. McKinley' movement number 1587621 is rare...
Grade 120 21 Jewel OF Pendant Set Adjusted 3 positions Model 5
The grade 120, like the grade 115 and 125 is not a common watch—all 3 are 21j pendant set. Approximately 2,000 serial numbers were reserved for the Grade 120.
I picked up this watch on EBay for $265. Despite the Montgomery dial this is not a RR grade watch as it is only adjusted to 3 positions and is pendant set.
I continue to urge people to consider some of these Hampdens as they are still a relative bargain compared to Hamilton, Illinois etc.
|IHC Life Member|
Super pick up/////
I agree, these watches are still a bargain. the 2nd watch I bought is a Hampden. doesn't really apply here, as it is only 17J. It is the nicest running watch in my collection, and I have 4 RR's.
LETS GO Hampden!
Great looking keeper, you have there!
|IHC Life Member|
Robert I have a just acquired 16s 21J Hampden movement to add to your serial number list. In fact I need to thank you for this post in pointing out this watch as a potentially scarce one--its different appearance initially caught my attention but your info on the scarcity of these Hampdens really got me interested. I was thrilled to purchase it on ebay for $137 and some change. I just received it--above avg movement with hairline/chip free DS dial marked Hampden Watch Company with original appearing hands but sans case. It has a gold train and balance appears to swing well. SO here's the info:
No. 105 RRG 21J
HN4L Adjusted 5 Positions, Double Roller
Serial No. 2025781
Besides it being marked No.105 and a Hunter model one of the things that caught my eye was the damaskeening which is a bit different than the other Hampden model 4 16s watches I have or have seen. It does resemble the 21J HN4L WmMcKinley that Lindell posted pictures of below but is slightly different. Somewhere in my collection I also have a 16s 21J HN4L WmMcKinley watch (I also think it is marked Adjusted but am not certain of this) but it has a bad center post and my local watchmaker was unable to locate a part to replace it. I will have to get out my other 16s Hampdens and get the serial no. info to you. I like Hampdens and have grown to respect their beauty and quality--and am still somewhat surprised that they aren't as sought after as Illinois and Hamilton. I also love some of the Rockford 16S RRG watches but I think that from my attempts to buy them on ebay that collectors value them as highly if not moreso than the more prolific watch company products (the sell prices on ebay seem to reflect a higher price than that found in Shugart's guide anyway). If anyone can recommend a good watchmaker who can repair my Hampden WmMcKinley I would greatly appreciate the referral. Once again my membership in this wonderful organization has proven to be worth every cent and more.
Thanks, Greg Hall
Just came across this thread. Here's my addition
16 21 ON5L 5P No. 105 ser# 2717939 Also marked double roller
I am much more familiar with 12 size watches but felt that I could help generate more interest in Hampdens by sharing what little I do know about their RR watches.Glad my estimates were of help to you.
Try Chris Abell for watch repairs--he does a great job. He is listed on this board.
Tom and greg--thanks for the serial numbers
I recently acquired two scarce 16 size 21 jewel Hampdens that are adjusted to 3 positions and are pendant set.Only one production for each grade exists.
The first is a grade 125 with 500 reserved serial numbers. Here is a chance to pick up some rarities at low prices--I paid less than $200 for it.
The Grade 115 has 1,000 reserved serial numbers.
Mine is 3,585,982. It cost me $250 which is more than the rarer Grade 125. I believe the higher price was probably due to the Montgomery dial.
Grade 115 dial
|IHC Life Member|
I recently picked up a 21J Hampden Wm. McKinley hunter marked Adjusted.
21J Wm. McKinley Hunter
According to your table on Page 1 of this topic, only 175 are estimated to be produced. However, when I looked up:
16s 21j HN4L A Wm. McKinley
in the Hampden Watch Co. book serial number list, I found 7 runs spanning almost 1200 serial numbers.
Did you mean 1750 produced in your estimate of this 21 jewel watch?
Still trying to learn...
Thank you for catching the error.
I don't know how it slipped through .
|IHC Life Member|
At least you know how valuable the information you compiled is. I use it all the time to help sort out the Hampden watches that pop up on ebay.
In fact, I made the first page of this thread a Favorite so I can get to it easily.
I wish we had the same easy to use list for Hamilton, Elgin, South Bend, Walthan, Illinois, etc.
Robert, I have a New Railway, ser # 3452216, ON5L, HAMPDEN on dial-Dueber GF case. and a Grade 105-ON5L, ser. # 3306464, DUEBER HAMPDEN on dial, Keystone GF case.
Robert, Please add to list the following Hampden Chronometer: # 3509506; 16s,21j HN5P 3psn. Thanks bjw
|IHC Member 1110|
I'd like to add my 21J Hampdens to the list: #3326935-New Railway ON5L, Bold Montgomery dial marked "Hampden" in block letters, in Dueber YGF "Excange" case.# 3394408-No. 105, ON5L, DS AN Montgomery dial marked Dueber Hampden, in YGF Dueber pyramid bow case. # 3326435-Wm. McKinley,ON5L, DS AN Montgomery dial marked Hampden Watch Co. in script, in Dueber silverine case....In my opinion, these are really nice RR watches, every bit as good as Waltham Illinois, etc.I still wish someone would start up a Hampden collectors club.I'd be first in line to join!
ON4L, 21j, Adjusted
ON5L, 21j, Adjusted to five positions
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