Internet Horology Club 185
Canadian South Bend Dial

This topic can be found at:
https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/364101939/m/9781012572

September 01, 2007, 17:57
John J. Flahive III
Canadian South Bend Dial
I found this watch today at an antique shop near where I live. The dial caught my eye, but the case was beat up, so I was kind of disappointed. However, I was very surprised when I opened up the back of the case to find out that it was a grade 229 "The Studebaker" in very good condition. Smile

I was able to negotiate 10% off of the $250 price due to the condition of case, so after taxes I have $CAD 254.25 or $USD 240.67 in the watch. Big Grin

If anyone has a nice Canadian case that would be appropriate for this watch, I would be highly interested in buying it to make this watch right again.


John III


September 01, 2007, 17:58
John J. Flahive III
Here is the movement. It started right up when I wound it.


September 01, 2007, 17:59
John J. Flahive III
Here is the worn out case that needs to be replaced:


September 01, 2007, 18:56
Joseph W. Robinson
Hey John, Wow! What a deal! And a super looking Southbend! Finding a great looking Canadian Monty dial is really hard to do from most any watch company. Wish it were mine! Big Grin

Joe
September 01, 2007, 19:17
Joel W. Sarich
John:
Congratulations! That's a very RARE and WONDERFUL dial and watch too! I hope you find a nice case for it.
Cheers!
Joel
September 01, 2007, 21:24
Samie L. Smith
Wow John the dial if there is no hairlines is worth quite a bit more than what you paid for the complete watch.. Smile
September 02, 2007, 15:42
Lindell V. Riddle

Absolutely right!

John, you can be my watch buyer anytime! Big Grin

But seriously, I've seen one and only one dial like this in 18-size and this is the only 16-size version I am aware of. A great buy and a very important find, congratulations my friend.

Lindell

Wink

September 03, 2007, 11:40
John J. Flahive III
Lindell and I talked on the phone about this watch. Originally, when I picked it up, I thought it could be the perfect carry watch since the case was trashed, but the inside was near perfect with a high quality movement and a conversation piece dial. Then I talked to Lin about this one and was surprised that he hasn't seen the dial in a 16s watch especially since he is one of the experts on South Bend watches. So after finding out that this is a very rare dial, I have definitely changed my mind about carrying it. Smile

And Samie, there are no hairlines that I can see... Big Grin

John III
September 03, 2007, 22:56
Tony Dukes
John,
Enjoy and take care of the dial. Smile
Tony
November 11, 2008, 18:16
Lindell V. Riddle

FOLLOWING-UP ABOUT A YEAR LATER...


Just over a year ago when John Flahive III came across his 16-size "The Studebaker" Grade 229 with Canadian Marginal-Minute Dial he was surprised to find he had the only one of those dials ever reported to exist among South-Bend collectors. More than a year later, with this topic in public view and showing up on searches it is still the only one known. Back in 2000 I had acquired the 18-size version that would later be featured in NAWCC Bulletin, page 94 of the February 2001 issue with this caption...

"This must be as hard to come by as they get, a Double Sunk, script-signed, marginal minute dial with an inner ring of 13-24 hour numbers. Such dials were typically used in Canadian Railroad Service."


"This must be as hard to come by as they get..."


November 11, 2008, 18:16
Lindell V. Riddle

After this 18-size version being shown in a hobby magazine as noted above and shared here at IHC185™ and elsewhere on the internet for the past several years, so far no other example has come to light. Obviously, only time will tell whether we ever find more than the one 16-size and one 18-size shown in this topic. If anyone should ever find another please share right it here with all of us!

Canadian Railroad Watch Expert, Larry Buchan and I have discussed my dial in considerable detail and Larry has often said that I should mate my rare 18-size version to an appropriate movement. Due to Larry's urging the next two images show this exceptionally rare, only one known in 18-size dial finally installed on what I felt was an appropriate "The Studebaker" movement.


Very rare 18-size South-Bend dial on "The Studebaker"


November 11, 2008, 18:16
Lindell V. Riddle

Here is the 21-Jewel Grade 329 "The Studebaker" movement number 579655 I selected to front the dial, this movement was not in an original case when I bought it. What we have assembled here is something that could have been. The dial and correct set of hands in a display case allows easy viewing of dial and movement without the usual risk to either.


South-Bend "The Studebaker" displayed under glass...


November 11, 2008, 18:44
Tom Brown
Very nice dial, movement & case. Lindell your watches put everyone of mine to shame. I wish I would ever run across one of those.

Tom
November 11, 2008, 19:37
Larry Buchan
Lindell,

Beautiful dial, movement, and case that really shows off this Gem.
November 13, 2008, 09:23
Edward L. Parsons, Jr.
Congrats & thanks to John and Lin for sharing their examples of rare and stunning South Bend dials.

That is what IHC185 is all about after all. Smile

Canadian dials with red 13-24 numerals are a personal favorite of mine and that "swoosh" South Bend signature makes it a home run out of the park!


Best Regards,

Ed
January 14, 2010, 02:14
John J. Flahive III
Another update:

The watch I bought back in 2007 with the amazing dial also had a corroded case that was worn to brass in the typical areas. I am happy to report that this case has had a make-over and is now shiny new again!

I sent the original, corroded Canada-made case to Master Casemaker Peter Wuischpard in Cocoa, FL after discussing the case with him on the phone (888-811-3934). I got the case back in about a month, which is what he promised, and it looks nearly new. I am well pleased and ready to send him another Canada-made case for a Waltham I picked up at an antiques show with a neat 24 hr dial and a perfect 1/8" ring of brass around the back.

Here is the before picture as a reminder.


January 14, 2010, 02:47
John J. Flahive III
And here is the same case after replating. I had a hard time taking a good picture since the surface is essentially a convex mirror. Cool

I kept putting my fingerprints all over it trying to position it. Now you know what the inside of my light tent looks like. Smile

The polishing and replating cost me $90 including shipping. Link to Peter's website in case you are interested: Wuischpard & Son Watchcase Repairs

John III


January 14, 2010, 02:59
John J. Flahive III
Also, I just got this watch in the mail today from Rob Jones. It is a South Bend Grade 227 with a 24 hr dial and a NAWCCo Case. It has a few hairlines, but I think they will soak out nicely. Not too bad for $260 including shipping. Big Grin


January 14, 2010, 19:59
Larry Buchan
Hello John:

Here's a photo of my South Bend Grade 227's dial. It is also cased in a NAWCO case and the serial number is 1090384 it would be interesting to see how close your serial number is.

Larry
January 14, 2010, 21:39
John J. Flahive III
Hi Larry,

Your watch looks like a twin! Mine has a serial number 1090359. Only 25 away from yours!!! Smile

Case serial number is 7236346. Marked "NAWCO, Security, 10 Karat, Gold Filled, Railroad Model, Patented". Has a nice train engraved on the back.

John III
January 15, 2010, 07:11
Lindell V. Riddle

Looks like they are essentially "twin" watches!

During the 1920s both the South-Bend Grade 227 and 16-size Studebaker Mail Order Watches were advertised in NAWCCo cases made North American Watch Case Company of Mansfield, Ohio so these may well be original combinations. It will be interesting to see if there is any correlation between the case numbers.

Every serious South-Bend collector must have at least one!

Congratulations guys,

Lindell

Wink

January 15, 2010, 11:58
Larry Buchan
Hello John:

Yes the only difference I can see, is that your hands are heavier spades than mine, my case I believe does have a locomotive engraved on the back, although well-worn. I will get back this afternoon with the case serial number.

Larry
January 15, 2010, 18:06
Larry Buchan
Hello John:

My case has the same markings, but the serial number is 7266337 not as close as the movement serial numbers.

Larry
January 16, 2010, 00:07
John J. Flahive III
Thanks for checking Larry. Although they aren't as close as the movements, they are still in the same neighborhood: 72xxxxx

John III
January 17, 2010, 19:31
John J. Flahive III
Here is my South Bend Grade 227 after the dial was soaked three times in Polident Whitening Big Grin


January 19, 2010, 10:08
Roland Glenn
Nice South Bends guys!!! So Polident works does it? That dial looks awesome, can't even see the hiarline that was near the 8.
March 09, 2010, 20:04
Keith Klimkowicz
Hi All

Just picked this one off Ebay it also is in a "NAWCO" case with a train on the back. Watch is from a different run 1192229 but the case is close 7272808.

Regards
Keith


March 11, 2010, 00:13
John J. Flahive III
Looks like a nice original watch Keith. I must have missed that one since I am still unpacking in my new house.

John III