I have a friend who owns a size12 South Bend pocket watch which he thinks may have been a prototype. It is model 433 with 21 jewels and marked 8 adjustments. The serial number is 3456787 and I would love help in identifying this possibly unique model. Anyone out there who can help in identifying it?

Hans,

Welcome to IHC185! First, it would be a great help if you could post a picture of this watch.

There is no such thing as a South Bend Grade 433. If that number 3456787 is associated with the watch, it is probably the case number. The highest SB grade number is 431, which has 21 jewels and is adjusted 5 positions. The "8 Adjustments" marking was used on their mail order watches and the "8" was a marketing ploy totaled from adding up the normal 5 positions plus heat, cold and isochronism.

There is more info in this topic: https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...64101939/m/398107005

I've asked Chuck to send Lindell an email to the southbend@roadrunner.com address. The pictures I received from him showed the "th" in South were a little off center, etc. The second "3" in the model number "433" was different than the first 3. I, too, have never seen a serial number from South Bend Watch that is seven digits and starts with a 3, as in the 3456787 displayed on the movement he showed me. Chuck thinks it may have been a South Bend prototype. Is that possible?

Here are two pictures of the South Bend 433 in question. Here is closeup of of the serial number. I'm also curious as to the variation in the number "3" and the lettering for "South Bend" looks odd. It also has a "Studebaker" dial. Any help in identifying it would be greatfully accepted.

Here is another photo of the "433" movement with serial number. I'm also curious as to the variation in the number "3" as the two threes in "433" are not identical and oddly spaced. Any ideas as to authenticity would be appreciated.

Welcome aboard Hans!!

Great looking watch. Lets hope it is something never seen before.
Great find!

Welcome again!

Steve

Hans-

Everything on the watch is correct for a South bend 12 size pocket watch made towards the end of the company's life. The "th" being off a little does not bother me as I have a studebaker with the same offset in the "th". Mine is from 1.1 million range of serial numbers, again late in the company's life. The 8 adjustments is also correct to the late period studebakers along with the jewel count and red jewels. The only two things not matching is of course the 433 marking and the pattern on the plates. From my experience, there is a few ways this could have been made.

1) It could have been a prototype watch that south bend was looking to come out with right before they closed and never had the opportunity to make into a standard product line. It also could be the prototype for the 12s "Studebaker" and they decided to change it from the 433 to the name "Studebaker" before producing runs of the model.

2) A company employee decided to make his own personalized watch.

3) It was an unfinished movement left when the factory closed that was finished by someone else.

Any one of those answer would be a possibility as we have no records from South Bend on this. Personally I see it as a personalized watch since the serial number is out of the standard range. I have yet to see any prototype watches from South Bend that weren't just taken out of their regular serial numbers. someone may have gotten these plates from the "junk" pile due to the serial number being started incorrectly and finished it out for their own use. although unlikely, it may also have been an unfinished movement in the factory when it closed that someone eventually finished.

Basic point is that it is probably a one of a kind that never had any brothers or sisters to play with. I don't think it matters why it was made, but just that it is a unique south bend and that is what will drive the price and collectability on it.

Also, can you tell us if the rest of the frame plate serial numbers match or are they unmarked?

Jared

That's quite a piece of scholarship Lin, it's going to take me a while to digest all of it.

I agree with you about the serial number though, that's most suspicious.

It reminds me of some of the "random" bids I use on eBay auctions, like $3456.78 for instance.

Another thing to note. I happened to look at a couple studebakers that are in the 1.1 million range. The location of the serial numbers themselves on the studebakers are about one entire digit farther right, with the last digit being actually right of the case screw, not to the left as on this one. Also, the 5 and 8 stamps do not exactly match the south bend stamps for the studebaker grades from the same era. From this, I would have to say my opinion goes back to my #2 or #3 suggestion that the plates were at some point finished outside the factory. as always though, just my opinion.

Jared

I appreciate all the learned comments about this "interestingly" unique South Bend watch. I hope Lindell is able to speak with Chuck, the owner, and be able to shed a little more light on this one-of-a-kind Studebaker.

Thanks, Lindell, for sharing your beautiful "Director's watch". It must be a real joy to own such a great example of South Bend Watch Company's excellent work. I'm a little bit happy that more consideration is being spent on watches by Illinois, Waltham, Hamilton and the like so that we, who like South Bend's work are able to acquire them at a relatively undervalued price.