How do you properly size a roller jewel? By measuring the crux of the pallet fork? Thanks

I actually have feeler guages that are specifically made for this. Basically, though , you measure the square cut to find the largest size that fits into it smoothly, and then subtract 2 from that size to get the size of the jewel. As in most everything else horological, sizes are in millimeters.

The advantage of the special feeler guages is their shape - they have a 30 degree angle to them which makes it really easy to measure the pallet fork gap in place.

Hi Mark,

Here's the tool Harvey is talking about. This one was made by Vigor and measures from .28 to .60 mm. Elgin and other companies also made these. If you're lucky, you may find an old Elgin roller jewel set. They used to come complete with this handy tool.

Here is the tool in use.

Thanks. I will start lookng for one.

Watch Doc has them for $19.00. Click on tools and it is item T1.75
http://www.watchdoc.com/

I think mine cost around $5.00 on eBay. You will see them from time to time in jeweler's tool lots. If I happen to see some, I'll email you the link.

Also dashto.com has them for about $20.00. Uncle Larry is another good source.

OK - I just did my first roller jewel on an Elgin size 6 (I am not a lover of this job). The jewel was soooo much smaller than the hole in the roller plate. I took a picture of the plate holder and the brick of shellac. Is there another tool that not only holdes the roller plate but also holds the jewel in place as well? I fiddeled with that jewel for a hour (thought I lost it 4 times - thank goodness for canvas catches). Do you just melt the shellac and keep straightening the jewel as the shellac cools? Does someone have a better way? Was I using the correct shellac? It did more pooling than wicking. Thanks

Hi Mark,

Did you remove the roller table before replacing the jewel? The reason I ask is that the combination tool you have pictured can be used to replace the jewel on the balance complete. I DO NOT recommend this. You could damage the hairspring, anneal the staff and distort the bi-metallic balance. It also makes the job a lot less complicated when you have just the table and jewel to contend with.

Shellac usually comes in a tiny stick format or flakes. You have quite a large stick but you can always chip a small sliver from that. Just remember it needs to be small enough to melt rapidly without having prolonged heat applied to the table. Too big of a piece and it will pool and not wick, i.e., a big mess.

Also the roller jewel for an Elgin 6s should be around .40mm. It sounds like you were using a jewel that was too small for the hole. It should fit almost snug.

Mark,
I use flake shellac. It is easier to just break off the small bit you need (just enough to cover the jewel end).
Here is the link to a past discussion on roller jewels where I describe a tool that I use. It might actually be for studding a hairspring? But works well for this task.

Roller jewel tools

Mark,

Here is a picture of the tool I use. It's great for pallet jewels also. Although there is no jewel present, you can get a feel for about how much shellac to use. Actually, the amount of shellac shown is probably too much.

This is a picture of the flake and stick shellac. This one tiny flake could probably do fifty roller jewels or more!

The stick shellac is too large to be used as is. You must first heat it in the middle with a flame and then stretch it into a very tiny filament.

This is one of the greatest roller jewel tools I have seen or used, but I do not know who makes them. The instructions say [italic text is mine]:
1) Hold tool in upright position to pick up jewel
[this is like using a tweezer - the ends of the jaws are grooved to hold the jewel]
2) Insert jewel into roller table. The large opening in the tool provides clearance for the safety roller [on a one piece double-roller]
3) Turn tool over and roller is held in perfect alignment for cementing in the usual manner. [the roller table rests nicely on the flat side of the jewel tweezer] Pass tool thru flame to heat gradually and avoid overheating.

Thanks guys. I had to re-staff the watch and put in a new roller jewel. After re-staffing, the original roller table hole diameter was too big for the staff, so I ordered a new roller table and pin from LaRose. I have that little book Dimensions of American Balance Staffs and the dimensions of the new staff checked out. The Illustrated Manual of Americal Watch Movements said this watch used a pin (I assumed a steel pin). The new roller table fit the new staff but the roller jewel hole was now D-shaped (the old table had a round hole but there was no jewel or pin in it). From what I could tell, the measurement on the pallet fork was 0.34 mm. Comparring the parts to the Illustrated Manual of Americal Watch Movements, it appears that I have the correct pallet fork (picture-wise). 0.40 mm would be way to big for the fork but great for the table. The brick of shellac was also obtained from LaRose. I used an Exacto knife to cut off a microtad. I guess there is nothing left to do but put the watch back together and see if it runs. I will keep an eye out for the tools you mentioned.

Let me know if it does run Mark. It might but.... are you timing the watches after you repair them? My experience is that just about any change in the balance will make timing nearly impossible. A lot of so-called watchmakers are using a mish-mash of parts and then simply saying "running-strong." I've timed such watches and they are nightmares.

We use flake shellac and John is correct. A single flake will do dozens of watches. We just "touch" the flake to the warm jewel...let it cool and then sorta chip the excess off (and there will be excess). I understand that you can make shellac by simply putting liquid shellac in a shallow (and shiny) dish and letting it dry and scraping it out. We haven't done it at our shop because (as I said) even a few flakes will last forever.

I applaud your efforts Mark!

Mark,

Are we talking about a 6s Elgin or the movement in the first picture? In either case, both should use a half-round jewel. To my knowledge, no Elgin 6s used a round steel pin or round jewel. The lever in the first picture has a flat where the flat of the half-moon jewel interfaces. The lever on the Elgin (my picture) also has a flat for a half-round jewel. I'm no detective but the previous repair person should be arrested for watch battery!

This was discussed on the green board. Scroll down and read Doug Sinclairs meathod using cuttlebone.
http://nawcc-mb.infopop.cc/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/62860...531099761#3531099761

Thanks guys. Well, the Elgin 6 would not run. I think I will just set it aside and look for some tools at the national show in Cleveland. However, I did jewel the Illinois Paramount and it worked fine. That jewel fit just like you said it would - snug. I will have to post a picture of Paramount - it is stunningly beautiful watch. I am convinced that roller jeweling is the "cleaning toilets" of watch repair (and I cleaned toilets for 14 years). The first picture I used to start this message was from a Hamilton Elinvar (it was handy).

Mark,

After you gain more experience, you will be able fix that 6s Elgin with no problems. There were many problem watches I put aside until more experience was gained.

How hard can pallet jewels be? LOL