Both of the Balances pictured come from 16s Traveler (1899) movements. Am I correct in thinking that these are both friction hubs and so require #4861 Balance Staff (I'm guessing that the slightly blued area is the friction hub) I have a 3rd Balance wheel from another 16s Traveler (1899) but the staff came away rather too freely and I am unsure whether this was a friction fitting too as I have misplaced the old staff. The question in respect to this is can you get the friction hubs at all, would a #4860 fit if a hub had been previously installed, or is the wheel beyond hope.

Barry has some #4861 in stock but they are listed for 16s Vanguard and is unable to advise whether they would be suitable. I would attempt to check myself but my copy of Illustrated Manual of American Watch Movements is held up in the Canadian Mail strike.

Gareth, If your staff has a taper shoulder, it takes staff #4861. If the staff has a straight shoulder, it takes staff #4860.
You do not have to remove the blue hubs, to replace the staffs.

Thanks Brian,
I wasn't aware the #4860 was a friction fit as well everything I've read on friction staffs so far only shows the tapered #4861 style in pictures(noob mistake). I have a staking set now so will have a try at removing one or both. Good job that I have a couple of both types on order. This will be my first "proper" repair so wish me luck.

Update

Manged to recover the friction collet from my lost staff and re staked.

Fitted x2 #4861 staffs which have breathed life into two movements but they are in sore need of a COA now and timing sessions.