Hi all.
Well here's my problem of the day.
I picked this pocket watch up about 6 months ago and since then have just shelved it till a "snow day" and today is that day.

The dollar watch is a 1937 Earl 7j made by Hew Haven. The hour and minute hand won't operate. The seconds hand does.

And when I pull out the crown I can operate the hour and minute no problem and everything engages.

I've done this with the dial in place and without and I get the same results of non-moving hour and minute hands. And they are tightly fitted to the posts.

I've looked at all the wheels etc. and everything is there.

Any ideas

Here is a closeup of the wheels with the crown pushed in (non-setting mode) and wheels engaged, if this helps.

And here is a picture of the back plate, which doesn't show much really other than the fact its a dollar watch.

Here's an ad showing this dollar watch.

It sounds like the canon pinion needs to be tightened.

Hi Roger, thank you. Just how do I do this fix? I checked it for end play and it seems fine and tight.

Thank you, Roland

Roland,

The canon pinion is friction fit over the main wheel arbor. When friction is insufficient, the watch runs but the hour and minute hands don't move. There is a special tool that is used to tighten it or it can be done with a staking set if you have one. Usually the canon pinion is a hardened piece and will shatter if the tightening process isn't done right. If you have a staking set, look for a V shaped stump and a flat ended stake. You place a needle or pin in the hollow of the canon pinion first. This is very important as it helps prevent damage to the canon pinion. Lay the canon pinion in the V stump on the staking set and place the flat stake (it has a bit of a sharp edge), perpendicular to the canon pinon about in the middle. Give a LIGHT hammer blow to the stake and it will place a dimple on the side of the canon pinion which will in turn make a small raised area on the inside wall of the canon pinion. You now are ready to place the canon pinion back on (careful to press it on straight...use a stake so you don't snap the main wheel arbor). You should feel a noticeable difference when turning the crown to set the watch. It will feel much tighter.

If you have the special tool for this job, it is a bit faster, but the results are the same.

You could gamble with other methods, but you would be taking a chance of damaging the canon pinion. Personally I wouldn't try it without the right tools.

Thank you Roger for explaining the process. I'll print it out and see what I can do.

On these dollar watches, I don't believe they have a regular cannon pinion, as with most watches. I believe it just has a brass gear that is frictioned on the center post.

Thx Brian, I'll check that out. It makes sense since these dollar watches have fewer parts.

Here is the pinion with the gear and hands removed.

Does it look right, or is there something under the plate that is missing?

Here's a closer image.

Roland and Brian,

If the brass wheel was friction fit to the main wheel and that brass wheel was slipping, then the hour hand would not move, but the minute hand would. Since both hands are not moving, I believe that you do have a canon pinion, a crude one, but still a canon pinion. If that is pressed over the main wheel and there is insufficient friction, there will be no hand movement. There isn't anything else I can think of that would cause this problem. I bet if you try to move that brass wheel it turns without too much effort.

On these, the center wheel is frictioned onto the center staff pinion. Then the little gear you have is frictioned onto the center staff. Think cheap. You will have to take the movement apart to see what's going on.

That makes sense Brian...thanks for the explanation. It would appear then that the center wheel could be slipping on the center staff pinion if it is made in that fashion.

quote:

On these, the center wheel is frictioned onto the center staff pinion. Then the little gear you have is frictioned onto the center staff. Think cheap. You will have to take the movement apart to see what's going on.

Hi all. I was able very easily to remove the gear from the center staff pinion. Yes these movements are cheaply built and that was what made these dollar watches, with this one having 7 jewels at the end of New Haven's kick at the can. It's almost a total turn around from the start of dollar watches when the Waterbury's had 4 jewels then went to none.

Ant how here are 2 images showing the center staff pinion, and then the actual gear.

What is the best way to put this back on and make sure it is friction fit? Solder it on to the staff?

Thanks always, Roland

And the gear.

Roland,

Do NOT attempt to solder the wheel to the shaft. It is hard to tell from the pictures how this was made, but if it is like Brian suggested, the problem is below the plate and the watch will have to come apart. The wheel you removed turns the hour hand through a reduction gear (the one next to it that you just lifted off). Can you tell if there is a single shaft coming up through the plate or does it appear there is a sort of sleeve over the shaft coming up? If it is a sleeve, then that is what is slipping and you would not have to take the watch apart to fix it. The picture looks like the shaft is brass colored with the tip silver colored suggesting there is a brass sleeve there. If so, then that brass sleeve is friction fit over the steel shaft and can be pulled off. You would then dimple the hollow tube as I explained earlier. The best way to reattach the wheel you removed is a triangle stake which would place 3 small raised points on the hole. Do both sides of the wheel. This takes a very light hammer blow to do. Then you will be able to press your wheel back on. All this assuming of course that you have a crude canon pinion and not the type of arrangement that Brian described. Brian seems to be more familiar with these dollar watches, so maybe he can add something here.

From what I can see with a 30x loop, it is one single staff with a little bump on the end for the minute hand to rest. I put a black line on it and wound the watch and it is turning. So I've got to attached the gear and it should rotate also.

Roland,

I'm a bit confused now. The little bump you refer to would be for the minute hand. If you put a line on the shaft and it turns, then the minute hand would have to turn also. Are you sure that both hands were not turning originally and not just the hour hand? If the minute hand turns and the hour hand doesn't then you have found the problem with the wheel you removed. Tighten that on the shaft and you should be good to go.

If both hands weren't turning, the little brass gear is not the problem. The center wheel is slipping. The watch has to come apart.

Brian,

I think Roland has to clarify what is going on. He originally stated both hands failed to turn, but then he said the main wheel was turning when he put a line on it and ran the movement. Without a canon pinion to tighten he would have to tear down the movement to fix it like you said. If the main wheel is turning, then that minute hand has to turn with it and that little brass gear would need to be tightened in order for the hour hand to move. Do you agree with this?

Yes Roger, I agree.

Hi, both the hour and minute hands still don't rotate. I put a line on the staff and as the movement ticked it rotated, so I secured the gear back on and still no luck.
It must be below this plate and being a dollar watch and parts scarce due to being 7J, I'll end up wrecking it, so to ebay it goes for parts. And back to getting a 1891 Waltham 16J 0 size back to running.

Thank you for all your replies on this thread.

Roland

This dollar pocket watch has found a new owner, and I fixed the 0s Waltham (bad hairspring) and it's running excellent as is a 19J Illinois that for almost a year gave me jewel issues.

So not a bad week after all.

Roland