...am in the process of attempting to clean and repair a 6S Waltham PW and have hit the wall...the watch runs like a 'trojan' in the dial down position but stalls and stops when put in the dial up position...now methinks it is probably the balance jewelling...have carefully removed, examined and reinserted both the cock and pillar balance jewels w/o any change in symptoms...my question is: which pair of jewels are likely the cause of the watch stopping in the dial up position?...thanks...Jim C

Jim,just a shot in the dark by a watchmaker wannabe,but check the hand clearance and work backwards.

Good luck(and hopefully advise by those that are more qualified)
,

Sam Williamson
NAWCC 154312
IHC Charter Member 14
Member Chapters 96 and 185

I have the same problem with a 12 size Waltham, checked balance jewels also to no avail...probably a disease to Walthams this time of the year. Still have to check hairspring not hitting the balance cock or probably a new mainspring would solve the problem.

It could be jewelling, but then again it could be many other things. I'd first check the balance cock jewels to make sure all is well. Next look at the top pivot of the balance staff. Is the cylindrical end portion of the pivot in proper proportion to the conical part? If the shape is wrong, it could be wedging in the hole jewel before the end of the pivot hits the end-stone.

If all is well with the balance, move up the train... Is the roller jewel engaging the fork properly in the Dial up position? Are the lever pivots good? Are the palet jewels engaging the escsape teeth properly? Are the pivots on the escape wheel good?

My bet is that it is a problem with the top pivot of the balance staff. Check the endshake to see if it is excessive. If not a top pivot, double check the hole jewel to make sure it is a corect olive hole balance jewel and not a straight sided plate jewel that someone has put in as a replacement.

Mike Miller

The most likely set of balance jewels that would stop a watch in the dial up position would be those in the balance cock, but there are several other problems that are just as likely.....

If the dial-side balance pivot is "mushroomed" on the end, it can bind in the dial-side jewel only when the watch is in the dial-up position, but not in any others.

If the hairspring is too close to the balance spokes, or too close to the balance cock, it can stop the balance when the movement is in the dial-up position, particularly if the balance endshake is a bit excessive.

If the pallet arbor has excessive endshake, the pallet fork can rub the bottom of the roller table in the dial-up position, thereby stopping the balance. In a related problem, particularly if the watch is a double roller model (which it probably isn't) if the roller jewel is too long, or set too low, it can rub the guard finger, thereby stopping the watch. That problem would normally be worse in the dial-down position, but if the pallet fork has more endshake than the balance wheel, it can happen only in the dial-up position.

Of course, the most likely cause is a short pivot on the top (hairspring-side) of the balance staff, or excessive distance between the hole and cap jewels there. In either event, if the tapered part of the balance pivot enters the hole jewel before the tip hits the cap jewel, it's certain to bind and stop the watch.

There are a few more esoteric problems that I won't mention right now, but if you check all the above and still can't find the trouble, I'll toss out some of the more obscure possibilities and see if any of those happen to help.

For what it's worth (Carlos ) don't expect a new mainspring to solve an escapement fault. If a watch runs in one direction, but stops in another, it has more problems than can be cured by a new spring.

========================

Steve Maddox
President, NAWCC Chapter #62
North Little Rock, Arkansas
IHC Charter Member 49

...Gentlemen all!...thanks for ALL the inputs...have made a list...will be checking it twice and reporting back...Jim C

...Mike, Steve...right on the money!!!after having been satisfied w/the balance, I had been 'pushing' and re-inserting the balance cap and hole jewels, both top and bottom, examining them closely, adjusting the endshake and clearance, etc., to no avail...satisfied w/that, I now proceeded to follow the checklist and take a harder look at the balance pivots...under the stereo microscope it appeared that the top pivot now looked marginally shorter that the bottom...a strict measure confirmed this...it was, as you fellows had suggested, the shoulder was binding on the top hole jewel when the movement was dial side up...now the search begins for a replacement balance staff...as important as finding the answer to the problem is that I now have a checklist for problems that are traced to the escapement/balance assembly when there is sufficient power to the lever...thank you gentlemen!!!as a clockman now embracing watch work (1 year now), I have a new regard for escapement/balance theory where a delicate hairspring is involved and now carry Thisell's 'Science of Watch Repairing', a treatise I had thought too 'heavy', from breakfast table to bedside...thanks again!...Jim C

Question from a newbie: ¿Can the problem that Jim is explaining be corrected by filing the pivot end? or opening the jewel hole?

Carlos,
If one has a lathe and skill, the shoulder taper can be altered. But most likely the reason Jim is seeing this problem is because the staff pivot itself is damaged (shortened) and the staff itself is too short and should be replaced.

Jim,
Let us know if you need help finding the correct part number for the movement. With a serial number we could see if any of us have it listed in a materials catalog.

Mike

Mike Miller

...thanks Mike!!!have successfully found a couple of Waltham 6S model 1898 hunting staffs from my dear 'Uncle Larry' here on this side of the line...much appreciate your and everyone's assistance...Jim C