Good Afternoon All,
I am completing work on an Elgin KW/KS watch.
After making and replacing the balance jewels, I re-assembled the watch and tested. The balance amplitude was stil weak. After examination, I noticed that the entry pallet stone was not locking properly, reaching only enough to touch the end of the escape tooth. I finally had the opportunity to use a new tool that I purchased, and it worked great. I slightly moved the entry stone out a bit, and now the amplitude is looking good. For pictures, go to http://www.timepieceshoppe.com/watch1.html

Please provide me with any comments or observations on the repair work,
Thanks,
Joel

JOel, Nice work and a very nice tool. I totally agree with you in using this. it gets the job done.

Joel.
Wouldn't it have been easier to turn the banking pin a little?
Brian C.

Good Morning Brian,
I had considered both stone adjustment, and banking pin adjustment. My logic was if the lever's motion was balanced in relation to the pivot (and it seemed to be), then the banking pins either should not be adjusted, or both adjusted the same distance to maintain balance. I am thinking that if I adjusted both pins to keep the lever in balance, then the other stone would have moved out of adjustment.

With that logic, I opted for the stone adjustment. I must admit that training my eye to notice such tiny distances is challenging, especially in a full plate watch, and trying to peep through the tiny peep holes to examine the motion of the lever.

But, your point is well taken. Please let me know if my logic is in error, as I am always learning,
Thanks,
Joel

Hi Joel,

I am with Brian there, The odds are someone has been tweaking the banking pins, these are often adjusted just to see what happens!. The Shellac looks very old and stone has been set in place for a long time. If you are repairing the watch and the shellac is that old it could be a good idea to completely remove the old clean the stones and replace the old shellac (the stones need to be perfectly clean to stop oil migration). Also if the pallet settings are bad check the roller out also.

Chris,
Thanks for the observation. That makes sense, as this is a very old watch. I am always interested in why a watch malfunctions, not just how to fix it. Your thought on the odds being more in favor of someone attempting adjustment of the banking pins does seem more likely in retrospect.

I will take your advice, clean and reset the stones, check the roller, and then readjust the pins.

When I get back to the watch, I will update,
Thanks for the good info,
Joel

During browsing EBAY last week, I happen on an interesting tool http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item...=STRK:MEDW:IT&ih=002

It went for over $300, but inspired me to make my own. I will post on www.timepieceshoppe.com

After several comments, I am going to examine the movement of the entire escapement assemply to ensure proper adjustment of all components. But I have alway been frustrated examining all parts in a full plate watch.

I have taken two brass rods, installed a friction jewel at one end (to fit over the lever and escape wheel pivots), and am making an solid holder to allow proper up-righting and space adjustment so I can move the escapement slowly while observing in the open.

More soon,
Joel

Just my 2 cents....messing with banking pins...unless they have been moved...Hmmm....what will opening the banking pins do to the guard finger to roller table clearance?...I thought ajusting banking pins was to establish this clearnce FIRST...then the pallet stones are moved for proper lock and drop of the escapement...

I may have posted this here before,but feel it is worth doing so again.I find that I have to go through these steps with about every watch I service. That's mainly because someone else has messed with it some time in the past.

Lawrence...thanks for the heads-up...I have Bookmarked that page...Tony C

Here is another interesting animation on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5c5RK4WFV8

Helps understand visually,

Joel
www.timepieceshoppe.com

Thanks for posting the link Joel, fascinating to watch,

Interesting...I thought is was just...TIC-TOC...seems there are really 2 Tics and one toc??
my old timing machine only hears the TIC...and the TOC.

A great thread, thank you Joel for stimulating all this comment.

One other comment. I have the same tool that Joel has to adjust pallet stones. I have used it only too often especially when the stones have been "moved" by someone (even me ) carelessly assembling the wheels AFTER the pallet fork is already in (this may happen the second or third time you reassemble a cranky watch and get LAZY!). By wobbling around the escape wheel to "find it's bearings" you can and will jack the pallet stones up from their original position, and then everything goes out the window until you reset the stones.

Also, I must add that in my experience some pallet stones are a simple "press fit", and while it is nice to see the shellac in there, if tight enough and carefully handled the press fitted stones will stay where they belong if thats the way you found them assembled, making this tool a key factor in precision adjustment of the stones.

Finally, the banking pins are usually adjusted to assure proper sideplay clearance for the pallet fork and the roller pin, so I think the stone (re)adjustment comes after the pins are set. Messing with the banking pins later can really create havoc to the watch timing and operation. I am sure the experts can cast more light on this "mysterious process".

Whenever is needed to observe the travel of the escape lever within the banking pins and the way it engages and disengage the theet of the escape wheel you may insert a tiny piece of paper between the cock and the balance wheel to damper its swinging and slowly move it by hand to simulate its travel and observe from the top how the system ''works''. By knowing the basics you may immediately notice what is wrong...
rgds

Enzo

Well, I have been busy on other repairs, and just got back to this watch. I went through a complete adjustment of the escapement, readjusting the banking pins, and resetting the pallet stones. Balance amplitude is very good now.

Now I have to work on the barrel lid. Keeps coming loose, as it has been abused in the past. I wanted to try to retain the original, but it may be just to bad. I have another that I will fit to the barrel,
Joel

Joel and Chris-Wow! What a tool;I'd sure like to play with that! I'll be watching ebay for "funny" movement holders...and Chris,that tip about assembling the wheels after the pallet is in-that helps explain some trouble I had once after lots of frustration.
I didn't want this thread to end-!

I avoid damage to the pallet stones by leaveing the pallet in place when I run it through the cleaner. That is if the pivots haven't been oiled in the past.Then the pallet has to be removed so the jewel holes can be pegged out.