I have been looking for an older version of watch cleaner for some time. The ones I have seen on e-bay go for quite a bit for an old machine that would be difficult to repair if it failed.
I have heard the ultrasonic watch cleaners loosen the jewels in a watch movement by attacking the schellac.
What experience have you had with either machine?
What would be my best solution? Keep looking for an older model or try a newer ultrasonic model?
Thanks

With an ultrasonic cleaner you have to be careful of the roller jewel and pallet jewels. I have a small ultrasonic cleaner that I can hold parts in with tweezers and if I keep these parts in for no more than maybe 10 seconds or so there is no problem.

You can tell if your ultrasonic cleaner is working by taking a thin strip of aluminum foil and holding it in the cleaner for about 10-15 seconds. Hold the foil up to the light and you should see pinholes thru the foil. This is why you never put certain items such as pearls in an ultrasonic cleaner. The jewels in the plates of a watch are no problem to place in the ultrasonic cleaner.

Hi there,

very interesting, why and how that happens?
tnks rgds

Enzo

Ultrasonic is the best i think ,too me going back too the old 3 jar cleaners is like going from a cadillac too a model t ..Ford

There is one thing you have too watch on the real old watches like the model 1857 waltham the ultrasonic can damange the glass jewels,,on most all of the watches made from about 1880 till now the ultrasonic is the best i think..I very seldom have any trouble with a roller jewel comning loose ..I think what will damange the shellica on a roller jewel is some of the homemade cleaning solutions people use...Use the l&r clening and rinsing solutions made for the ultrasonic and you won,t have any trouble....

From my limited expereince I also like the ultrasonic, I use an old Watchmaster, I have never had a roller jewel or pallet jewels come loose. I use to use the onl 3 jar egg beater machines & I like the ultrasonic. I just use store bought L&R chemicals.

I hope to put an extra one of the watchmasters up for sell on the site here in the next week or so.

Tom

Enzo

I think this describes how the holes occur in the foil.

Tom

During cavitation, micron-size bubbles form and grow due to the alternating positive and negative pressure waves in a solution. The bubbles subjected to these alternating pressure waves continue to grow until they reach resonant size. Just prior to the bubble implosion, there is a tremendous amount of energy stored inside the bubble.

Temperatures inside a cavitating bubble can reach 9,900F with pressures up to 500 atm. The implosion event, when it occurs near a hard surface, changes the bubble into a jet one-tenth the bubble size, which travels at speeds up to 400 km/hr toward the hard surface. With the combination of pressure, temperature and velocity, the jet frees contaminants from their bonds with the substrate. Because of the inherently small size of the jet and the relatively large energy, ultrasonic cleaning has the ability to reach into small crevices and remove entrapped soils effectively.

Enzo...This is a partial explanation from Wikipedia. Better than I could explain it. (Transducer) "produces ultrasonic waves in the fluid by changing size in concert with an electrical signal oscillating at ultrasonic frequency. This creates compression waves in the liquid of the tank which ‘tear’ the liquid apart, leaving behind many millions of microscopic ‘voids’ or ‘partial vacuum bubbles’ (cavitation). These bubbles collapse with enormous energy; temperatures of 10,000 K and pressures of 50,000 lbs per square inch have been reported[citation needed]; however, they are so small that they do no more than clean and remove surface dirt and contaminants. The higher the frequency, the smaller the nodes between the cavitation points, which allows for cleaning of more intricate detail."

My own comments...I believe if the pallet or balance with roller jewel is left in long enough the shellac will be attacked.

If you own a boat you can also see the effects of cavitation on a propeller. It will remove the paint and pit an aluminum prop. Amazing what those little bubbles can do!!

Roger

I have found over the years that the right tools for the job you are doing is a must for good results...I have several bigger open tank ultarsonic cleaner i use for clock movements and they are great for that job, but i would not use them for watches for the simple reason they are too agressive for watch work. L&r makes cleaning and rinsing soultions just for watches and nothing else,,they also make ultarsonic machines made only for cleaning watches ,,some other good ones were the ones made with the bulova name ,,i have a mckinney that is a great small cleaning machine..I belive that a old company like L&R would not have put these cleaners and other products on the market if they did not work good..

Just my thoughts on the way i do it ,,it would be nice too also hear from others about how they clean the watches..

Samie

The ones I use are the old Bulova ones, they were called Watchmaster Products, I think they were made by Vibrograph for Bulova, I have a Mark II & they are currently making a Mark V. I have seen the Mark V in use & I like it but it is rather expensive new. Jules Borel along with others carry the Mark V that price on it is about $3000

Like you said, as long as you use the proper chemicals & follow the operating instructions I think they work great.

Tom

I have both ultrasonic and the 3 jar L&R cleaning machines. I like the old L&R 3 jar for watches.
Brian C.

I have a fully automatic machine called a Tempo, this use a ultrasonic and a rotation method that rotates about 1-2 turns then reverses, 4 large jars + heater station, automatically spins off and transfers between jars, you can control speeds durations, select ultrasonic etc, etc, I never had any problems at all using this with old verge/fusse to high end wrist watches I does a excellent job of cleaning. I use the L&R solution only no home made concoctions. To replaced the chemicals cost about $40 for all 4 jars I keep a tally of the number of watches cycled through, there is no definitive number I can do before replacing, however it gives me a indication and based on results that drives a fluid change I also have two ultrasonic watchmaster machines as back up should this go defective one day.
Prior to getting to the cleaning stage you should inspect the shellac and if found to be old or weak replace it, it is a very easy task and only take a couple of minutes. All parts should be checked prior to cleaning and if using a ultra sonic stud, dial screws etc, should be removed or tightened as they will unscrew.

I would like to thank all who shared their thoughts and experiences with the two types of cleaning machines.
The newer ultrasonics I was looking at are used primarily for jewelry. They had only one tank and I just realize I would also need rinsing tanks.
I guess I will continue looking for a gently used machine of either type.

Ed

Hi Ed,

This one looks interesting

ON EBAY

look to be a auto type, these will work fine when used with the correct chemicals preperation.
dont see any baskets

Chris,
Your link made me querry under cleaning instead of cleaner and I found two more cleaners.

Ed, Also try L&R in watch section,

Thanks for all the help guys. I picked up a C E Marshall last night. I paid a little more than I wanted but it is very nice shape with all the attachments. The owner said he has been using it and it works fine.

Hi Edward

Did you get a Little Giant? I have one of those I keep for a spare but was my main machine until I got the ultrasonic. I really like the Little Giant, better than the L&R's I had.

Tom

Tom,
Yes, it is a little giant. Glad to hear someone has one and is pleased with it.