What is the proper procedure for adjusting banking pins? I am pretty much of a novice at watch repair, and my tiny library on the subject doesn't say much about this. I bought an old 18 sz. Elgin off Ebay, and after cleaning, and replacing a couple of jewels, it did not run very well, as the balance would occasionally get hung on either side of center. After deciding the banking pins were way out of adjustment,and with the watch running, I turned each one in until the watch stopped, then backed them off until the watch started running again. The old Elgin is now "tying every bundle", and keeping good time. How are you really supposed to do it?

Hi Donald,

I did the same thing with a 12 size Elgin and it seemed to work fine. I think that you did it correctly as I did just about the exact same thing. My watch keeps great time and doesn't make a funny noises (in its "tick").

If it works and nothing is damaged then it must be correct! In my opinion, anyway

I'm not sure what you mean by the balance getting "hung?"

One thing that we do.... is to stop the balance in its neutral position. In that position, the pallet lever should be precisely centered. If it is not, it probably means that the hairspring collet is mounted incorrectly.

I would always tend to check the hairspring collet before I touch the banking pins. Simply from the materials used and the kind of wear it gets, I would suspect the collet (and want to eliminate it) before I began to look at the banking pins.

Donald,

As Peter mentioned, a good place to start is checking to ensure the watch is in beat. The problem you were experiencing was probably caused by someone replacing the pallet lever complete or one of the pallet jewels or fooling around with the banking pin adjustment.

I've done the same thing as you and Tim with "okay" results. However, try reading "Replacing a Pallet Jewel" by Fried in The Watch Repairer's Manual. You will see just how entailed it is to set the pallet jewels correctly and then adjust the banking pins. There are a lot of dynamics involved of doing it the correct way.

I always thought that the ONLY reason to adjust banking pins is to set the clearance between the guard finger and the roller table....not to set the lock and drop of the escapement...any other opinions?

Tony,

You are correct in that the banking pins aren't responsible for draw, which is a function of the angle of the locking surfaces of the entrance and exit pallet jewels. No amount of adjusting the pins will correct for lack of draw.

My guess is that the banking pins in Donald's watch were out of whack throwing off the safety action of the roller in relation to the guard finger. A watch severely out of beat like Peter and John suggest can also result in the problems that Donald was experiencing. If that were the case the tick-tick would be noticeably out of "tune."

I see...when you use the term "safety action"...what exactly does that mean...is that when the roller jewel locks behind the horn of the pallet?

Tony,

While it is possible for the roller pin to lock behind the horn of the pallet (often reffered to as overbanking). This wouldn't be a common result of banking pin issues.

Since the watch's symptoms seems to have been remedied by opening up the banking pins, my guess is that they were too close together and causing the guard finger to come into contact with the roller table. This will stop a watch without necessarily overbanking.

None of this conjecture really rules out the possibility that John and Peter were right on the mark with the idea of the hairspring collet being wrongly positioned either.

Ain't it fun to diagnose problems without even having the watch in hand

Here is something that explains the proper adustment of the pallet.

While there is a correct way to do this job, it involves quite a bit of finicky work with tools
(pallet warmer and shellac), that many of us collectors will just not have. And, with the worn movements of 75 years old I often work with, the precise clearances advised in the notes above are difficult to ascertain.

Frankly I do more or less as Mr Jones does. After assembly of a movement as far as the lever, leaving just the balance to be added, and with a little power on the mainspring, I observe the interaction of the lever and escape wheel - and ensure a tiny amount of "run-to-banking ?" on each side of the lever travel. This will I'm sure horrify the professional, but is a lot easier than heating pallets and moving delicate stones in or out.

Dan.

We have a tool (hand-made) that will move a collet, while the balance is in place. It allows us to make tiny corrections quickly and to immediately see the results. Of course, slipping a tool into a hair-spring collet is very dangerous. A slip and you will ruin the hairspring (or worse). But... that system does allow us to perfect the movement's beat. (Don't try it without some training and practice.)

We seldom mess with the pallet jewels or the banking pins, unless they are obviously broken or bad. IF pallet jewels or roller jewels have been super-glued (rather than shellac'd), they are likely to loosen or fall out. In those cases, we have to address them. Same with banking pins. Banking pins are very hearty (compared to other parts). They are unlikely to come loose. If they are wrong, it is probably because the movement is internally improper and some butcher messed with them to get an improper watch to run.

Learning the proper operation and adjustments to the escapement is a very important part of watchmaking. Everyone should learn to set up an escapement. It really isn't that hard to do. The link I posted in the previous post is a good guideline to start with. I actually learned this from a basic watch repair video.

I agree with the above. A "watchmaker" working for a customer should do the work properly, and should have the correct tools to so do.

But a "collector" who can do repairs, may have a different agenda - my aim is to have a clean, oiled movement, which runs reasonably to time - I don't need a watch which I perhaps wear once a month to be horologically perfect - I just need it to run reliably within a minute or so per day.


dan

I understand your point,Dan. I'm a collector that does his own work too,and I also do work for other people. The point I would like to stress is that adjusting an escapement isn't that tough,and I'm sure you would be happy with the results. I know I was always afraid to mess with the pallet jewels and didn't have any idea how to adjust the banking pins,but once I learned the steps for doing this I found that it was easier than I thought. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if I can do it anyone else could too.