hi everyone.
todd here.
so,
i just replaced the balance staff on an elgin 17j model 6 from around 1900.
just the second time doing this and it was a lot of fun.
i love my staking set.
i would whack stuff with it all day if i could.
so,
i put the balance on my poising tool and surprise, surprise, i am way out of poise.
i love my poising tool too, so elegant. but not giving me good news today.
so,
now to my questions.
1- i poise the balance with the roller table in place, but not the hairspring, right?
2- how do i know whether to remove weight by undercutting, or add weight with washers?
3- do I install the balance in the movement with the regulator dead center and time the movement to see if it is slow or fast thereby determining that weight needs to be added or removed?
4- or, do i just play with the screws until i achieve poise and then time the watch?

i apologize that this was a wordy posting but this is a much more complex problem than i originally thought it would be.
not that i am complaining.
i love the complexities of this and that there is so much to learn that i do not get bored.
thank you to all
todd

[QUOTE]1- i poise the balance with the roller table in place, but not the hairspring, right?
Yes
2- how do i know whether to remove weight by undercutting, or add weight with washers?
I undercut the balance screw on the heavy side first then if still heavy, I added a timing washer on the opposite Screw.

3- do I install the balance in the movement with the regulator dead center and time the movement to see if it is slow or fast thereby determining that weight needs to be added or removed?

4- or, do i just play with the screws until i achieve poise and then time the watch?

Elgin has no mean time screws so poise it put regulator in middle and if it is fast add timing washers on opposing screws or if it is slow lightly undercut opposite screws

hmmm why with roller table I been told to have the balance wheel only

I put mine in the bottom drawer. Don't use it any longer.
I use a Bergeon caliper. Just tighten the staff a little bit
(Very loose) and it will spin to the heavy side down while letting
you see the staff & wheel wobble at the same time. Set it a little tighter and you can hold the wheel while changing the screws.

I'm no expert, but the Chicago School of Watchmaking course (Lesson 17) shows poising with the roller table attached.

Fried's Watch Repairer's Manual shows it that way, too.

ok thanks.

The roller Table with Roller Jewel is part of the rotating mass of the balance wheel and has to be balanced with the wheel/staff assembly.