Only recently have I started to collect early 1930's Hamilton mech. wristwatches -- and now find myself in need of replacing mainsprings - something never before needed or done.

I'd like advice on how and with what ? Any particular type/method recommended ?

Dan.

Dan... there was a large thread, recently about mainspring winders that was quite good. Look under "Mainspring Woes."

Replacing or servicing a mainspring appears as one of the simplest things in watch-repair. But…. in practice, it can be very difficult, frustrating and even dangerous (in terms of possible injury or lost parts).

I would strongly encourage you to find a competent watchmaker and allow him to SHOW you how he replaces and services mainspring. If not, seek out a video. Getting advice will confuse the issue and will result in frequent and early failure.

For instance. Once the mainspring is properly positioned on the winder and wound (it’s easy to install it upside-down), it has to be inserted in the barrel. It has to be very carefully positioned so that the tab ‘catches” the hole in the barrel. I use a screwdriver to hold the tab while pushing the mainspring out of the winder-barrel. This is very tricky and I doubt that I could explain it well enough so that you would avoid frustration.

You need to actually SEE it done and (better) have someone walk you through, hands-on!

One thing that *I* do and some do not…. is to lube the mainspring AFTER installation in the barrel. A new spring must be cleaned of preservative prior to installation but I lube the spring by putting lube on top of the installed spring and putting the barrel into a parts-dryer so that the lube will melt into the spring. Many folks lube before installing but I prefer not to have to handle a slippery mainspring. Those suckers are hard enough to handle… dry.

Just my preference.

Oddly enough, the watchmakers that I know all install the mainspring with their thumbs. They insist it is the most practical way to put it in and take it out.

I use a K and D winder which works well. These are readily available on the net. I tried using an "improved" K and D which fits in a bench vice, but I couldn't get the hang of it. I guess when you get used to a particular way of doing it, it is hard to change.

With all due respect.... I would never encourage a novice (or even an experienced watchmaker) to install a mainspring with his hands. For a novice, it will prove frustrating and nearly impossible. With all the good mainspring winders out there, it seems futile to learn this difficult skill.

Second.... Henry Fried specifically warns against manual installation of mainsprings. On Page 75, of his 3rd edition, of THE WATCH REPAIRER'S MANUAL, he says, "If a mainspring is inserted by hand, it is forced into the barrel with the result that the spring will become kinky, the coils irregular, and the spring twisted in the shape of a spiraled cone." Fried does not hesitate to say that a winder should always be used.

I put four dabs of yellow watch grease on the mainspring and then let it sit in the drier for about a minute or two. The grease melts and seeps into the mainspring very nicely.

It is not only easier to handle a dry spring but you do not get your recently cleaned barrel all covered with grease from your hands either.

For T-end pocket watch mainsprings a greasy or well lubed spring and barrel is almost a necessity. The prong on the T practically never stays in the slot after you eject it. If you have a well lubed barrel and spring you can rotate or maneuver it into the hole. With a dry spring this is near impossible.
A mainspring winder is also the correct and easiest way to go.

I've NEVER been able get a t-end mainspring to stay in the barrel hole without holding it. I place the winder (with mainspring) inside the barrel and then use a screwdrive blade to physically hold the mainspring end in the hole, as I eject the mainspring from the winder.

It's a bit hard to visualize... which is why I hardily recommended having a watchmaker walk a novice through the procedure. It's not as hard as it sounds, although I am always thrilled (and surprised) when I find that it hasn't slipped out of the hole.

We install ALL our mainsprings dry and lube afterward regardless of the mainspring type.

Well guys - I just got a K&D 128 on eBay, for all of $24 -- thanks for the advice. I'll have to experiment on my own with it -- qualified watchmakers able to show me how are non-existent where I live in England.


dan

I also got a Watch-craft winder, see pic below - is anyone able to comment on the best usage of this model ?

Dan,

I would go ahead and wind the T end into the tool barrel if you can. Then push the spring about 1/4 to 1/3 out of the winder barrel. Align the T end with the hole in the watch mainspring barrel and push it in rapidly.

Before starting, you want to make sure all of the preservative has been removed from the mainspring and both the tool barrel and mainspring are lubed.

The reason a lot of people hand wind their mainsprings is that the winders aren't that easy to use. However, as noted in prior posts, hand winding is a last resort.

Here is a link to the Helping Hand Tutorial covering the installation of pocket watch springs.

The most difficult springs I've encountered have been the Elgin double braced with end hole and "T".

Good Luck!

My technique is a bit different. I wind the mainspring ALMOST entirely into the winder but I leave the "T" outside. Then I place the winder in the mainspring barrel and hold the "T" in the hole with one of the larger jewelers screwdrivers. (One of those "anvils" with the holes is a good base.) Then I eject the mainspring from the winder.

I found that my early days were just horrid. My first few attempts went smoothly (beginners' luck) but then I had lots of failures and launched quite a few mainspring barrels!

It's an learned technique, so you have to be patient.

I just did an Elgin mainspring as John described with no problems at all. However, the Illinois 60 hour mainsprings give me fits.

I've tried leaving the T end out but usually have to use the next size smaller barrel to get it all to fit in the watch barrel. I guess if the barrel is lubed well, you should be able to turn the spring with thumb pressure until the T end snaps end.

Peter, were you installing a steel or alloy spring into the Elgin? I would imagine the alloy might be a little less stiff.

We have a pretty good stock of original mainsprings at the shop. As far as I know, I've only installed NOS factory mainsprings or the mainsprings that came with the watch... unless they are broken or hopelessly set.

I use the winder size that is small enough to insert into the barrel with enough room for the screwdriver blade. Compared with our wristwatch colleagues, we pocket-watch collectors get a break when it comes to mainsprings!

I hope not everyone hates me now...:
I would not touch clocks without proper tools but for the standard Hamilton 980/982/747/748/992B etc. I did it by hand with no problem. Some grease on spring and fingers of right "winding hand" (not on left holding the barrel!) starting at the outside and I just keep turning until it is in. No problem with the T-ends either, start right where it goes and my left thumb keeps it in place. Only thing, I don't do more than one at a time, kind of hurts after a while...
My tutor (master watchmaker) showed me how to do it and his remark was "Bergeon likes to sell tools for just about everything, not all of them are really needed". But as others have stated, this is by no means an encouragement to hurt yourself, if you are not comfortable from the start better use a tool to be on the safe side.

Chris.

I've never tried it Chris.

I recall hearing (somewhere) that hand winding can cause damage to the spring. Have you ever heard of this? I'm certain that there is a technique that would prevent this (the old guys knew their stuff) but....

I'd love to see you do this. I found that mainsrping winding could be very frustrating, even with the tools that are supposed to make it easier. Have you tried using a winder and then comparing the two, for ease, safety and efficiency?

And.... I for one, don't hate you. I find our various experiences to be very interesting and the "stuff" of this conference. I'm afraid that without all this input, collecting might get boring for me! Keep it up!

Thanks Peter, whilst I like perfect results - to get there my approach is more practical, I don't even own one of those spring winders and don't plan on doing so (unless experience teaches me otherwise on day...). What helps is I am pretty good with my (fairly small) hands, not that much experience fixing watches otherwise actually, still learning. I can see how you can bend a spring doing it by hand, always afraid that it happens but it just never did. Once you have the end in place and the first round (that is where it could get bent) from then on its really only turning the barrel with the left hand and guarding the spring with the right hand. Needless to say, I had barrels (and springs!) take off and bounce back and forth between my walls... . Actually, I am more concerned to get the spring out to avoid just that - than putting it in. My 992 is up for a change in mainsprings, a while a ago a watchmaker changed it but it winds incredibly hard and now I have a NOS spring. Because it winds so hard, I expect power beyond an 60 hour spring which scares me (by the way, my 992B lost a minute until the end but ran whopping 58 hours!) What is your best bet to take it out???

Thanks/Chris.

Chris,

You can usually tell when a mainspring has been hand wound into the barrel. Upon removal, a hand wound spring will have a coned appearance while a tool wound spring will be more flat. Also, a hand wound spring will rub more against the barrel and cover causing more friction and less power.

Thanks John, using plain logic, you are right and take it you talk about friction at bottom and cover of barrel. In practice have not found that though, springs are totally "flat" in the barrel. The same effect you would have to have when taking the spring out, at least my way...which is taking the center piece (sorry, don't have English name for that part on hand) out and then grabbing the spring in the middle and pulling it out of the barrel with a quick but controlled motion (hate that part...eye protection highly recommended!). I realize I am not putting the spring in the proper way but so far it has worked fine for me. Having read about trouble to get the T-ends in place using a spring winder, would not want to make a change at this point. As with most things, there are always pros and cons and - "Many ways lead to Rome!"
How do you take the spring out, that's really what I am not comfortable with?

Just grab the spring in the center with a pair of "needle nose" pliers and with pliers in one hand and barrel in the other put both hands inside a plastic grocery bag and pull the spring out. It`s all in the bag with this method!

Thanks Kenny, that's a cool idea. Why didn't I think of that...? It still hurts though, doesn't it? But at least you don't see the blood...

I don't mind talking about installing mainsprings but I hesitated to talk about removing them.

The plastic-bag idea is good. I never thought of it.

I've gotten better (haven't LOST a mainspring barrel recently) but removing them is never pretty and I always wince!

OK Peter - if that is the general view (which remains to be seen...), let's perfect the "technology": Instead of a grocery bag let's try a see-through garbage bag, then we cannot only feel but also see what we are doing! Seriously, I am going to try that with my German-high-power-mainspring in that 992 and see what happens.

I've hand wound in the occasional spring, although I now have two different spring winders, one is shown above in this thread.

However I had no luck some time ago when handwinding an automatic watch mainspring --- (Hamilton 661/Kurth Freres 25-45) ----
Every time I got started the auto end jumped out of the barrel as soon as I got winding - it proved impossible.

Dan

Is it necessary to lube a stainless steel main spring? I always lube an old-stock blue-steel main spring. I have Bob Tascione's video course and he suggests folding a small piece of wax paper - putting a small dab of grease in the crease and drawing it up the length of the spring.

I have changed my mind, did not change the spring on my Hamilton 992, instead took it to my watchmaker who is very good and he showed me how to do it: To take it out (he likes the idea with the bag!) after the center piece is out, he holds the barrel with is left thumb, index and middle finger in a way where the fingers stick out well above the barrel. Then he grabs the spring in the middle with strong pincers and slowly pulls it up. Wind by wind come out of the barrel and remain inside his three fingers. No wincing, all happens slowly and controlled. As to putting it back in nothing to add from what I have described before, that is how he does it too. Grease: That was a NOS spring with grease still on it and he did not add more, so a little bit should be on the spring, but not too much. Hope this helps!

Chris.

I'm a bit surprised (or maybe confused). Did your watchmaker just use the mainspring, out of the package,without greasing?

I was told that the NOS mainsprings are packed in Cosmoline (preservative) that has to be removed before the springs are put into service. We do so with lighter-fluid (Naptha?)and then lubricate the cleaned-springs with yellow watch grease.

I always believed that the ogrinal preservative HAD to be removed before the spring could be properly lubricated. Anyone else?

i have put mainsprings in both by hand and with a winder ,some of the new white alloy springs are just about impossible to put in by hand,,,

If i have a nos blue mainspring that is what i use some of the new white alloy springs are way too strong,,it,s kind of like taking a 250 cubic in, 6 cylinder motor out of a car and putting in a 454 v8 in it.

Peter, now I am surprised...and like to mention that German watchmakers are more into the Swiss technology and the only American RR grades he has seen are mine (he is more than impressed with quality to put it mildly). Will just go back to him and will take it out again to have a look so both of us can learn. This was old NOS steel spring in brown wax paper with blue print. Thanks!

Samie, that's why I always take NOS springs even if old and made of steel.

Spoke to my watchmaker, he does not grease main springs, because he feels that the deteriorating oil causes more problems than it does good. As said, the man is really good but I will deviate from his advice. I have found that a lot of matchmakers are on the technological level of when the best movements were made. Needless to say, it is to my opinion impossible to find any movement made today which is superior to Hamilton's quality back then, no matter what it says on the dial, but it is a mistake to ignore inventions of modern times such as synthetic oils and greases. Please see my new thread "winding 992 vs. 992B"

Chris.

Fried says to lube the mainspring and it is hard to argue with that old Sage. But... Fried also says to lube BEFORE inserting and I do it afterward.... so there you go!

And... I don't want to start an argument but... In my very humble opinion, I think that Illinois watches were generally higher quality than Hamiltons, for the same period. That is probably why Illinois went out of business.... their quality (and prices) exceeded the financial level of their customer base (railroad men).

Quality-wise, our pocket watches are terrific bargains. If they were made today, they would cost many, many thousand dollars.