Folks,
I was working on a "junk" Elgin 6s pocket watch movement, practicing installing and removing the balance assembly, and I noticed something odd about the roller and roller jewel. In place of a jewel pin, there was inserted a steel pin through the hole in the roller table. About half the pin remained on each side of the roller table, the lower, impulse half appeared to be filed flat on the bottom whereas the upper half came to a sharp point, much like a pin. Question: I assume this was some sort of makeshift repair? Was/is this a common practice? The balance bridge and balance wheel bear different serial numbers than the movement, so someone was trying to fix or salvage this movement sometime in the past. Did Elgin ever make a single roller table that contained an impulse pin that was NOT a jewel?

As a side note, boy, those hairspring studs are mightly delicate and sensitive, like a tiny two-piece, three dimensional jigsaw puzzle. Still, I was able to remove, disassemble, reassemble, and reinstall the balance assembly, and the darned watch actually still works (not sure about accuracy--there are no hands, no crown--I had to borrow another crown--and it is missing some setting mechanism pieces). I'm sure I didn't do it as completely and as smoothly as I could have, but it was fun and a nice learning process. Thanks, Happy Thanksgiving,
Pete

Hi Peter glad to hear you are having fun on the Elgin.I have never heard of a steel pin used instead of a jewel.It must have been some makeshift repair as you said the serial numbers did not even match up.
You will come across some weird things done to watches as you work on them more.
Keep up the good work and always have fun learning things.

When we tore down my GG grampa's 1868 BWR, there was a brass taper pin in lieu of a roller jewel-but it DID run and had been there a long, long time.

I have seen many watches with steel or brass pins put in for a roller jewel. From my observation, it is especially prevelant on New York Standards. I was told by my watchmaker friend that the roller jewel was a weak point on NYS watches. He stated that because of the engineering the action of the balance was very violent compared to other higher grade watches. This heavy action appeared to snap or break loose the roller jewel. I guess that because NYS watches were cheap and not liked by watchmakers, many of the roller jewels were repaired in a makeshift manner. Also, maybe the thought was that the steel roller pin would hold up better that a jewel. Who knows?

Tom

Peter,

This "fix" has been seen a few times. Here's a link to an older post discussing it:

Roller Jewel Substitutes

It's amazing what you will find. I'm just waiting to buy a watch that doesn't have some sort of a problem that needs correcting

All,
Thanks for the replies, and thanks for the link to the previous thread. I must say, the roller table and pin in "my" example looks better than the one pictured in the previous thread. If I were able, I'd post a photo of it. I didn't notice any wear on the pin or lever fork, but I don't know any of the circumstances of the repair, including when it was repaired. Thanks again,
Pete

Way to go Pete.
Removing and replacing parts over and over is the best way to learn watch repair. After awhile, your tweezers will be like a third hand. Keep practicing and asking questions.
Brian C.

Thanks Brian.
After I worked on the balance on this watch, I re-read Fried more closely, in the chapter where he talks about hairspring studs, and I think I found another (unusual?) makeshift fix. There was no pin holding the hairspring in the triangular stud. Instead, someone had taken the excess hairspring that protrudes beyond the stud and looped it up and around the stud screw, pinning it between the underside of the screw head and the side of the balance bridge. When I came upon this, I must confess that I didn't know any better; I didn't even know to look for a pin in the stud. So, upon reinstalling the balance assembly onto the balance bridge, I simply re-looped the hairspring around the stud screw. It's just as well, since I don't have a replacement pin, and I don't think I could make a suitable substitute. Am I right in thinking all Elgin triangular studs should have a tiny pin holding the hairspring?
Thanks,
Pete

Yes it should have a pin. These pins are not expensive, but it sounds like you may need a new hairspring.
Brian C.

Brian,
I think the movement needs more than just a hairspring
I am still using it to practice, although at one time I thought I could rejuvenate the thing. These watches are amazing; this one is 116 years old, and the plates and wheels still fit together nicely, and I even manage to get it to run.
Pete

There were watches that came with a steel pin for a roller jewel from the factory. I just finished a 12 size circa 1920 Swiss movement that had a polished steel pin for a roller jewel. The movement was engraved "Six Jewels" so the pin was original.
BTW, there was no visible wear on either the pin or the forks, and the watch, after repair and cleaning, is still keeping acceptable time.