I am working on an old Elgin Grade 4 (mfg in 1880). So far I have had to re-staff, roller jewel, new vibrating arm spring, and set lever spring. Both springs were broken before I took the watch apart, so I have to guess how they are installed. Can anyone tell me if I have the vibrating arm spring in the correct place (highlighted in red)? What does the set lever spring hook on to? The problem I am seeing is that the slot in the set lever (that allows the setting wheel to pop up) stops short and does not allow the setting wheel to pop up.

Also, the watch has a male bevel pinion. Does it require a special case or just a special female stem and sleeve system?

Thanks

Mark,
Let's see if I can help. With concerns to the set lever spring all you need to do is remove the blued screw,flip your spring over and make sure you place the end of the spring against the setting cam. All you need to do to the vibrating arm spring is place the end on the other side of the lobe it is resting against now. I hope this helps you some.

Thanks for responding. Is this what you mean? The problem is that there is nothing to transfer the setting cam and put the watch in winding mode. Plus the notch does not uncover the setting wheel enough to allow setting. There just seems to be too much stuff occupying this small space. This is a tough puzzle.

Ooops I think I steered you wrong this morning. That's what I get for trying to answer a question at 5:00am.
Turn the set lever spring over again,sorry. If that doesn't work you might have the setting cam upside down. You will have to experiment a little until everything works. Sorry I wasn't more help.

I guess one question is - does the set lever spring help push the set lever out or does it pull it in? That would determine whether it is flipped from its present position or not. When I try to relate this to (like a) Molly Stark, the springs do both - hold the set lever in and lock it in place when it is pulled out.

Do you know anything about the type of case it would be put in? Thanks

The set lever spring should push the setting cam and the set lever inwards towards the center of the watch.
As for the case. You will have to find a case that has a female stem in the case to match the male stem on the movement. Some one either this board or the green board mentioned a way to convert these movements to female bevel pinion. BTW,if I remember right these movements are a little thicker than the mormal Elgin 16s,so you might have a harder time finding a case for it.

Mark,

Here are some pics of a Grade 3 movement. The first pic shows the mechanism in the wind position and the second pic in the setting position. If you have problems determining your spring position/location from these pics, I can always dissamble the movement a little more.

Note: Your vibrating spring is positioned correctly in the first picture. In this position, the mechanism will "click" during winding.

Set position

Thanks - the pictures are a great help. That certainly makes sense. When I do hook it up that way, however, the notch in the setting lever does not exose the setting wheel enough to allow it to pop up and successfully transfer into setting mode. I would hate to think I would have to enlarge the notch to get it to work. If it worked that way in 1880, it should work that way now. But, some of these may not be OEM parts. Do you ever have to make a modification like that to get a watch to work? Is it frowned upon - considered watch abuse?

Mark,

Does the setting cam bottom out against the spring and pillar plate prior to the setting lever notch aligning with the setting wheel? If so, remove the setting cam and see if the lever notch will then align. There's a good chance someone else may have replaced either the cam or lever. If the lever appears to be correct for the watch, I would try narrowing the width of the cam or look for a replacement cam.

Mark, Even with the female winding arbor, these do take a special 16S case. This movement is thicker than a normal 16S. These came with both the male & female winding arbors. I have one of each, and the SN's are not far apart. So, who knows what Elgin's planning was for the winding arbors.

Tom

Thanks guys. Without the set lever spring installed, the notch on the settig lever lines up with the setting wheel and it pops into place correctly. I was thinking of ordering a couple new parts to see if it makes a difference (and maybe a female bevel pinion). Probably should hunt for a case first.

Mark, I have a parts movement that has your springy thingys in it. If you are interested, please e-mail me.

Tom

Just to let you all know, the watch runs great now. Turns out it was the setting cam. The one that was in there when I got the watch was a microtad too long.

Thanks for all your help and input.