HAMILTON 934

June 22, 2017, 03:54

Lindell V. Riddle

Roger,

Although a good quality watch, Hamilton's Grade 934 was not originally sold as nor was it ever considered by them to be a Railroad Grade movement, that designation is what counts heavily to most collectors. The "Adjusted" on a Grade 934 meant "Adjusted to Temperature" but not to the "5-Positions" that were required of a Railroad Grade Movement. I assure you that ALL of the HIGHEST GRADE HAMILTON 18-size movements were those classified as "Railroad Grade 5-Position" movements and those are now and always will be the most sought-after 18-size Hamilton movements by serious collectors and those movements will appreciate in value beyond those of lesser grade. Not just my opinion, those ARE the simple, indisputable facts.

Easy to remember THIS fact, Hamilton did not ever market any 18-size grade number below Grade 936 as a fully-adjusted, 5-Position Railroad Watch. The Grade 936 was their first RR Grade Watch, the one that got them going as "The Watch of Railroad Accuracy" and beginning in 1893 production the Grade 936 helped them to build their well-deserved reputation.

Hamilton's 934 originally did come with a Double-Sunk dial (no Grade in Hamilton 18-size below the 934 ever did) what you have there is "period correct" and it is one of the right dials for a 934 movement. Your particular dial can be difficult to find in top condition and from your picture it looks very good.

SPECIFIC CRITICAL POINTS.. The hour hand on your watch (Hamilton hand number 114) is broken-off short, the minutes hand is a number 111 and the correct "ball-end" seconds hand appears to be what you have. My only concern would be with finding a matched pair of hour and minutes hands and if it were my watch I would seek out a number 111 style hour hand to match your existing minutes hand. That is because hour hands are far easier to find, as the minutes hands were often bent or knocked off the movement by the user. Notice the "swell" or wider area part-way out from the center of the minutes hand (unlike your hour hand) that is what you might want to match-up if you choose to upgrade the hour hand.

As to how many were made, the Ehrhardt Hamilton Book shows the 934 as 3,310 from 1900 through 1909 production. To know how many numbers were designated (blocked) for the 934 an examination of the Gelson List looking through the columns for each 934 listing, recording the spans, doing the math and adding them up would likely get you very close to if not exactly on the correct answer.

You have a very nice example my points are not "picking-on" your watch, just letting you know what I would want to know if it were mine, whether I planned to keep it or to eventually sell it.

Hope this information is of help to you and others.

Be well my friends,

Lindell

June 22, 2017, 11:44

Ethan Lipsig

Lindell, I wonder if you are correct in saying that "a Railroad Grade . . . designation is what counts heavily to most [pocket watch] collectors." I don't doubt that this true for IHC 185 members, a self-selected group, but I seriously question whether it is true for the entire collector universe, including non-US collectors. I for one do not have, as far as I know, a single railroad grade watch among my 400 pocket watches.

I don't doubt that railroad grade watches generally were fine, robust timekeepers, but they generally were utilitarian watches produced in large quantities. Other watches then were being made that were equally fine, if not better, timekeepers, but that were much more stylish and much more expensive than railroad grade watches when initially marketed. Furthermore, some of the railroad grade requirements were parochial, such as actually or effectively requiring them to be made in the U.S., or arguably silly (e.g., requiring them to be lever set, when other alternatives were more convenient and just as safe, e.g., pin-set).

There is nothing wrong with collecting railroad grade watches, but I doubt that more than half of pocket watch collectors worldwide focus on them. There is a whole other collecting world out there. To illustrate, among other things, I collect certain makers, such C.H. Meylan and Touchon, certain models, such as Elgin C.H. Hulburds, 21j Elgin convertibles and Waltham American Watch Co. grades, and certain types, such as hermetic watches.

June 22, 2017, 18:19

Roger Stephens

Thanks Lindell, I see now that it is not a RRG. The hand was changed after the picture as they became available to me. Looking at the Gelson list I came up with 5,111 with one run being 3!

Roger

June 22, 2017, 20:17

Larry Lamphier

Interesting Roger, but my Hamilton Watch Co Identification book shows that number between 1900 and 1909 as being 3,310 as Lin quoted.

Regards,
Larry being

June 22, 2017, 22:41

Roger Stephens

Interesting Larry. By looking at the Gelson list I show the first year as being 1894 and the last as 1909. I wonder if all the s/n blocks were actually produced.

Roger

June 23, 2017, 03:51

Larry Lamphier

Good question that I cannot answer!

But I do remember Lindell telling me that "blocked" often meant they planned to assemble them.

Regards,
Larry

June 24, 2017, 11:16

Tom Dunn

Nice 934, Roger!

As far as RR Grade or no, I'm not sure how it is now days, but in the past some guys collecting 18 size Hamiltons for instance were more interested in the rarity than whether or not it was RR Approved.

That is to say it was kind of like pieces to a puzzle. There may be an 18S hamilton collector out there who has most everything else but not a 934. Hence that Grade would be attractive to him because he doesn't yet have it. 934s can be tough to acquire, especially in the condition like Roger's watch here. Murphy's Law applies you can find 2 or 3 when you're not looking for a particular grade, but when you ARE there's none to be had.

And how many of us have had opportunities to buy a watch but passed on it for whatever reason only to wish later we'd have bought it? I know I have...

June 26, 2017, 18:22

Roger Stephens

Tom, I agree with you. I do collect the RRG's but I
also can not pass up a beautiful watch with low production.

Regards
Roger

May 11, 2021, 21:43

William Thomas

Regarding railroad watch requirements and why: American made to assure quick parts availability and ease of movement identification. Hard to accurately I.D.Swiss movements and order parts pre-WWII. Not too efficient when Swiss parts had to be sent in to material houses to be matched to sample. Pendant-set not so safe if case sleeve or set spring breaks-stem will stay in setting position. The standards evolved over time for good reason. Things I learned from the "old timers" in the watch material business here in a one time big railroad center, St Paul MN.