Internet Horology Club 185
Hamilton 992B with Model 15 Case with 151 Dial

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July 29, 2008, 02:06
John J. Flahive III
Hamilton 992B with Model 15 Case with 151 Dial
I was wondering if this 992B that I won could be an original combination. I liked the dial and I was the only bidder so I got it for the starting price of $249. I recently bought a NOS Model 15 case for almost the same price, so I thought it was a pretty good deal.

What is the appropriate time frame for the 151 dial style? According to the Gelson list, C292278 should have been made in 1950.

Hamilton 16 Size 992B 21 Jewel In Stainless Case 1948

Thanks,

John III


July 29, 2008, 14:08
Donald Trumble
John,

The dial design shows up only in 1950 era ads and the case 15 was introduced that year. The fact your movement is also 1950 and everything looks as it should you have probably found a nice original watch at a very good price.

Congratulations!

Don
July 29, 2008, 19:39
Matthew E. Sutton
John,

The center of the second hand looks like it is silver in contrast to the blued portion. Is this true? Can you also provide the serial number to the Model#15 case? She sure looks clean.

I have a 1950 992B in a Mod#15 case also. The best carry RR there is.

Matt
July 29, 2008, 23:11
John J. Flahive III
Guys,

Thanks for the info. Very interesting timing on the movement, dial and case. I learn something new every day in this hobby.

I will post pictures and information on this watch when I get it. Since it is coming to Canada, it could take a few weeks.

John III
July 30, 2008, 08:51
Mark Cross
Talk about the 'ultimate' carry watch! My friend, please don't put this away in your collection to only be pulled out and admired. CARRY this one! It has all the bells and whistles of a great carry watch without having to worry about gold content in the case or a disintegrating melamine dial. The best of ALL worlds! Time it in, put it on a chain, and carry that beauty!

I'm a 'carry' man myself, and honestly shiver when I see watches like this disappear into a watch box or drawer.

Thanks for showing this one.

Regards! Mark
July 30, 2008, 21:51
Matthew E. Sutton
I think the dial looks like it may be melamine, but great carry watch all the same. It's possible that it could be either dial material in 1950, but most likely melamine. Any thoughts?
July 31, 2008, 08:19
Mark Cross
Good point, Matt. I hadn't noticed how faded out the red 5 minute marks were before this morning, so it may be melamine after all. If so, it's sure in great shape to be one.

I honestly don't know at this point. Confused

Regards! Mark
July 31, 2008, 16:42
Lindell V. Riddle

Good work guys, and I agree John made Wink a smart buy.

Just to flesh it out a bit, yes the Number 151 Numerical Dial is of Melamine Composition, an early form of plastic which saw its greatest use in low priced dishes and other dinner wear products. When dishwashers came into greater use the problems associated with melamine dishes became known as the drying in intense heat caused it to craze and in time flake as we are finding today with melamine dials. In defense of its use in watch dials, consider the fact that it was introduced some sixty years ago and during the first four decades they held up pretty well.

By the way, I think the time is fast-approaching when a top condition melamine dial will bring top dollar, probably more than their porcelain-enamel counterparts. After all, nothing else is correct for the Hamilton 992B and 950B from about 1950 through the end in 1970 when the last Hamilton RR Watches were shipped from Lancaster. The fading of Red 5-Minute Markers that Mark spotted is one early sign of aging as these dials deteriorate over time.

More about John's watch, in the advertisement below we see the Model 15 Stainless Steel Case shown in 1950 with a choice of three melamine dials. On left, the Single-Sunk Number 151 Numerical, center the Single-Sunk 168 Heavy Gothic and on the right the Double-Sunk 121 Heavy Gothic. All three are melamine. As Don mentioned, the 151 was offered only for a short time, the 168 was available for just a bit longer but the 121 would continue until the end.


The Model 15 Cased 992B with choice of melamine dials...


August 01, 2008, 09:13
Mark Cross
quote:
The fading of Red 5-Minute Markers that Mark spotted is one early sign of aging as these dials deteriorate over time.


Heck, YOU taught me THAT one, Lindell. Wink

Regards! Mark
August 01, 2008, 22:45
William Thomas
John-I was interested in this watch myself and had it on my watch list each time it was listed because I considered the watch authentic, which was its strong suit. What I really want is Hamilton model 14 in nickel/chrome case with this dial. I didn't really need another model 15 case. You got a good price at $249.00
August 08, 2008, 22:35
John J. Flahive III
I got the watch today. What a beauty! The condition is excellent. Here is a picture of the inside of the case back. The serial number is R123277.


August 08, 2008, 22:38
John J. Flahive III
Here is a picture of the dial. The black minute hand does have a silver center.


August 08, 2008, 22:39
John J. Flahive III
The movement is very clean. Sometimes you get lucky. Smile


August 08, 2008, 22:58
Lindell V. Riddle

John,

The earliest of these cases have an "R" prefix which is entirely correct, later they used "P" and that continued until the end. On the hands, I have seen a few others from the 1950 time-frame with the polished center on dark charcoal rather than blue hands. That is not common but it is right.

Everything about it looks right to me, you got a very good buy!

Lindell

Wink

August 09, 2008, 02:15
Matthew E. Sutton
Very nice John. I have to admit that I have never seen a Hamilton dial with a solid outter cirle and an "open" inner circle second hand marks within the bit. What is that smaller circle in the second hand bit? Interesting.
August 09, 2008, 02:22
Donald Trumble
Isn't that a mark on the dial?

I remember Lindell posting that most marks on melamine dials can be cleaned off with a pencil eraser.

Don
August 09, 2008, 02:31
John J. Flahive III
Yes - it is a wear mark from the second hand. At some point it must have been kittywampus , as my father-in-law likes to say, and wore a little perfect ring.

John
August 09, 2008, 13:10
Lindell V. Riddle

John,

What Don mentioned usually does work pretty well.

Try a clean, preferably unused wooden pencil eraser and proceed very carefully to rub off the marks. That idea came to me because such mars as you have and rub marks that we find around the edge of melamine dials resembled lead pencil marks. So I came up with the idea of "erasing" them and it works rather well in most instances. The question is, how much of your mark is a mar and how much of it is a scratch. Remove the seconds hand and be very, very careful in the procedure.

Let us know if this is of help,

Lindell

Wink