Interesting article Lindell, it's hard to image they would be happy about the end of production for the last American Railroad Watch.

I watched a goverment film today from 1947 taken inside the Hamilton factory now on a CD format... I found it very interesting there was some info. on how they made the Elinvnar hairsprings, very interesting film!

I recently purchased an unfinished 992B top plate only that shows a serial number of C525884. This is no doubt old left over stock, but does indicate that their may be complete watches out there up to this serial number range. It's purly a novelty item for me.

For some reason, I can't seem to leave this subject, of authentic 992B's, built, after Hamilton closed production, on 4C pillar plates.

I OWN one of these watches, and it is to my financial advantage that it is genuine.

Still... there are nagging thoughts about it.

Yesterday, one of the "unfinished" 992B pillar plates was offered on eBay. I "won" it and ended up buying several more. I want to have the unfinished plates, in hand, to examine them and determine what state they are in.

If they are "finished" but merely unjeweled, I believe that they would raise a legitimate question as to why Hamilton would finish a "post-production" run with 4C pillars, when "C" pillars were available. As we know, jeweling a 992B was a comparitively simple procedure.

So the question MIGHT be why these plates were not the 1969-70 992B's that were produced.

I own two unused, still in the original boxes 4C prefix 992B watches as well as other, used ones, and like Peter I consider each of them to be very important and worthwhile pieces of Hamilton history.

My speculative belief in answer to Peter's question is the 4C prefix plates were used for the clean-up run in 1970 simply because they were already jeweled and ready to go. Remember, production had ended some months before, the tooling had been packed-away, since it was no longer available for use they could not readily finish those left-over plates, so we can deduce that it was easier for them to just assemble the 4C prefix 992B movements from previously finished leftover bits and pieces. That use of 4C pillar plates would also serve to distinguish them from the regular production 992B movements which I'm sure management would have considered worthwhile. Today, they also help with our sense of what was going on in those interesting times.

For more information read the **** footnote here...

CLICK FOR: "Projected Hamilton 992B Movement Numbers" posting.

"**** During 1970 the very last American Railroad Pocket Watch movements were assembled. Although guestimates run as high as several hunderd we may never be certain how many or how few of the "4C Prefix" Serial Numbered 992B examples were put together using material essentially left over from the last 4992B U.S. Government Contract. These "4C Prefix" 992B movements from that final "clean-up run" at Hamilton represent the last Great American Railroad Grade Pocket Watches. As such, they occupy a unique place in our hearts, minds and collections. "

Hope this helps,

Lindell

Peter,

You will find that if you're just a little clever you can build a functional 992B out of those plates you bought. You have to figure out the best way to put in a post for the minute wheel... that's about it. I don't think any of the other parts have serial numbers, they really didn't need them anymore, but I don't know. I've looked at four of these plates and they've all been almost the same. They all look like all the machining is done, down to having threads for screws, and are ready to start the next phase. The only discrepancy I've found is some still need one final cut for the keyless works.

I'm surprised one of these hasn't shown up, even as a joke. There's a lot of C526xxx plates floating around out there and it would not be hard to jin up a watch.

Frank "407" Kusumoto

I agree and so......

I'd like to find (or discover) the lowest Serial Number that exists for these unfinished plates. Although there might be exceptions, I think that such a plate might establish, from one end, the last 992B ever produced. Once that plate was found and its Serial Number published, the Horological community would have some protection against subsequent fakes.

Well Peter, what are your numbers?

A production piece, known to be real and documented by Samie Smith is number C525258.

Number C525884 is mentioned above as a "plate" so there's the top and bottom limits as of now.

I haven't received the plates yet but I asked for the lowest numbers.

They did give me a couple of sample numbers and the lowest was C525428. That's getting pretty close to the "Samie Smith" 992B. They also told me that they THINK they once had lower numbers but they are not certain what they were.

Whether I do it or someone else does it.... I think the important thing to do is to PUBLISH the lowest plate that we know about. Then.... if later numbers start showing up, we will have good evidence that they may be fake.

In the best of all possible worlds, we'd have a finished, documented example and an unfinished plate the next SN away. That would be some very conclusive evidence of the "last American-made" RR pocket-watch.

Peter,

quote:

That would be some very conclusive evidence of the "last American-made" RR pocket-watch.

Since the movements were not assembled in numerical order, the highest serial number may not necessarily be the last one "made".

Robert

Agreed.... that's why I referred to it as "evidence" rather than proof.

In law, it would be what we call a "rebuttable" presumption.

IF we had a group of unfinished plates and a finished watch, with later numbers showed up, it still COULD be genuine but..... I think there would be a heavy onus to prove its authenticity.

Pete,

That guy you bought the plates from has been selling them for at least a few years that I've seen. I know more than a few people (more than I can remember) who have bought these plates as novelties. I "think" a high number plate has already been used to make a running watch. Just a hunch. But good on you for pointing this out and trying to narrow the number range down.

Frank "407"

Frank,
Isn't the serial number located elsewhere on the movement?

Robert

Not on the 992B. Hamilton intended that model to be entirely interchangeable and purposely put a number ONLY on the pillar plate.

Rob Sweet,

Peter and Lindell already answered the question just as I would have. Just one piece with a Serial Number, the mainplate. I took out my highest numbered 992B, numbered 500034, to check. Just one number.

Frank "407"

I am sure that C525258 is correct and it was bought new locally here in Kentucky.

Thanks to all.

Frank,
Hope you didn't disassemble to check!

Robert

Disassembling a 992B is an honor and a pleasure.

As a watchmaker (well, student to a watchmaker), I can tell you that the 992B and the 950B are probably the most precise pocket watches ever made. They are a pleasure to assemble!

Robert, just like Peter said it's like "Butter". I have to admit that I disassembled 500034 to see what was on a "finished" plate and how it compared to a 526xxx plate that I own and just briefly considered heresy. He He . Taking apart and putting together a late model 992B is a pleasure. It's like it all drops in together, like the watch is putting itself together!

Anyways, I was surprised that only the mainplate had a number. Okay guys, start finding those numbers in between C525258 and plate C525884.

Frank "407"

This is my 992B numbered C505200

Hello everyone;

I have a 1966 Hamilton 992B I bought from the original owner a few weeks ago. Serial number: C506848 it is in a number 17 gold filled case numbered P885959. It appears to be in amazing condition, according to the markings on the inside of the back cover, its last service was in 1978.

Bud

It's my pleasure Lin. I only wish I could contribute even a freaction of what I have received but I fear that will never be the case.

I've learned more about pocket watches this past year on IHC185 than I could possibly have ever learned on my own and I am very thankful for that.

Thanks to all of you who have helped me this past year. It is so appreciated.

Bud

I know this in an ancient thread, but I saw a post above that asked for some "proof" that the 4C 992B's were "legitimate". I can attest that I have a 4C 992B that was purchased (retail, probably in Newark, NJ) in the first half of 1970. It is now engraved with my initials and the date: June 1, 1970 - when I graduated from college. It has been in my possession since then, and was in my pocket nearly every day for more than 40 years.
For me, that's the best evidence there is. For you...well, I suppose you have to trust me, eh?

Just got this 992B S/n C522103=1969. Thought I would post it as it is a 1969 production watch.In a Model 17 case P297752 with the red stamp on it. There are no service marks at all.I doubt this watch was carried much. The Dial only has a little bezel rub and no cracks at all!The black hands look new.I bought it not running and no crystal. I believe it has a broken bal.staff.There is a dent on bottom of case as if it were dropped therefore a broken staff and crystal.I think it was then put in the sock drawer.There is a inscription on back J.C.Moore
50 Years Service L&N R.R.Co. 1919-1969

Dent on bottom

Bezel off