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Hamilton 992, 992E, and 992B Case & Dial Identification. (1924-1971) "Click" to Login or Register 
IHC Life Member
Picture of Larry Lamphier
posted
I'm, curious what the #151 Melamine dial would go on, as it dosen't say "Railway Special" would it still go on the 992B or the 950B?

Regards,
Larry
 
Posts: 2838 | Location: Northeastern United States | Registered: February 28, 2010
Picture of Richard Romero
posted
Larry,
The most common #151 dial, signed Hamilton, is definitely correct for a melamine era 992B. The #151 was produced with three different signatures, Hamilton, Hamilton RWS, and Hamilton RWS 23 Jewels. The 950B is preferred with dials that are signed 23 Jewels.

Here’s an interesting link: Hamilton 950B with No. 151 Melamine Dial?

Here, Original Hamilton Dial, you’ll find the #151 signed Hamilton RWS.

RR
 
Posts: 1425 | Location: Fremont, California in the USA | Registered: February 06, 2010
IHC Life Member
Picture of Larry Lamphier
posted
Thank you Richard! Very interesting.

One more question. Is the Porcelain #581 Montgomery dial, that just says "HAMILTON", just for the 992B U.S.GOVT movement?

Thank you.

Regards,
Larry
 
Posts: 2838 | Location: Northeastern United States | Registered: February 28, 2010
Picture of Richard Romero
posted
You're Welcome Larry,

The #024 Heavy Arabic Numerical (Montgomery) dial which is a Single Sunk version of the #581 was used on the earlier Military U.S. GOVT marked 992B. Later Hamilton used the #090 on the Military 992B.
These two dials are shown in the beginning of this topic: HAMILTONS WITH MILITARY MARKINGS

The #024 is also found on some non-military watches that wouldn't be marked U.S GOVT. The box below can be used as a guideline to determine a correct non-military movement serial number and case that the #024 may appear on. The serial numbers appear to be from around 1944-1945.

RR

Hamilton Box

 
Posts: 1425 | Location: Fremont, California in the USA | Registered: February 06, 2010
IHC Life Member
Picture of Larry Lamphier
posted
AGAIN, Thank you Richard!

That is a BIG help, as I have a few of these and didn't know if they were correct.

Regards,
Larry
 
Posts: 2838 | Location: Northeastern United States | Registered: February 28, 2010
posted
fantastic posts--thanks


Mike
 
Posts: 56 | Location: San Antonio, Texas in the USA | Registered: February 06, 2013
IHC Member 1740
posted
Wow!
Thanks a lot!!
So good and well documented information!
Wonderful work!

Daniel T.
 
Posts: 83 | Location: Romania, Bucharest | Registered: September 02, 2012
IHC Member 1338
posted
Richard;

I have a #3 TT case with what I think is the wrong dial on it. It may even be a repo, however it looks just like the #081 dial you have listed. (see the #10 on it?). Rest of the watch specs out to 1946 and is in beautiful condition.

Would the 536 porcelain RR Special be the only correct dial for this model, or could I use an 080 porcelain single sunk block Hamilton model? Would this 081 be acceptable? Appreciate the input...



Tom Dunn...
TIME MACHINE
www.myrailroadwatch.com
.
 
Posts: 2761 | Location: Ramsey, Illinois in the USA | Registered: December 15, 2008
IHC Member 1338
posted
Well, I was researching the files here and found this exact same dial AND in a number 3 case which Ed Parsons posted, so I'm going to believe it IS an original dial and would have been correct for 1946 production. What do you guys think?


Tom Dunn...
TIME MACHINE
www.myrailroadwatch.com
.


 
Posts: 2761 | Location: Ramsey, Illinois in the USA | Registered: December 15, 2008
Picture of Richard Romero
posted
Tom,

Correct dials for the 992B Number 3 Tu-Tone case are the 536, 537, and 080 as well as the 081. A couple of years ago Phil posted a picture of all three dials that are illustrated in a Hamilton advertisement for the No.3: I have these three tu-tone 992B watches.

That SS 081 dial is a great fit for the No. 3 case that was less expensive than the Model 10 and 11 gold filled cases available at the time. For the watch to be correct just change the baton seconds hand to a dart style.

RR

Dial Numbers: 536 - 537 - 080; Photo courtesy of Phil Sanchez

 
Posts: 1425 | Location: Fremont, California in the USA | Registered: February 06, 2010
IHC Member 1338
posted
Thanks, Richard...on that baton hand, don't know how it got there but I was going to pull it and noticed it is BLUED. Weren't all the baton hands black? Surely hamilton didn't send it out like this? We'll never know


Tom Dunn...
TIME MACHINE
www.myrailroadwatch.com
.
 
Posts: 2761 | Location: Ramsey, Illinois in the USA | Registered: December 15, 2008
IHC Member 1357
posted
Just received 992B S/N C167410=1946 in #3 TWO-TONE
Wadsworth case H790826 Base metal

m
 
Posts: 4036 | Location: Carbon, Texas in the USA | Registered: January 24, 2010
IHC Member 1357
posted
Case back

x
 
Posts: 4036 | Location: Carbon, Texas in the USA | Registered: January 24, 2010
IHC Member 1357
posted
Hallmark

z
 
Posts: 4036 | Location: Carbon, Texas in the USA | Registered: January 24, 2010
IHC Member 1357
posted
Movement C167410

d
 
Posts: 4036 | Location: Carbon, Texas in the USA | Registered: January 24, 2010
IHC Member 1955
Picture of Michael P. McNamee
posted
Richard and all,

I have a 992E with movement serial # 2606468. It is in what looks to me like a legit Model 10 case, EXCEPT that the case back shows a 6-digit serial number, 081148. Our Wadsworth Hamilton data base says that a Hamilton case from this era should have a 7-digit case serial #. If another digit were tacked onto the end of my case number--e.g. 0811480--it would appear to be right in the ballpark for the ca. 1936 movement. The case has the standard lever cutout and is stamped "Hamilton Railway" on the top of the crown.

Anyone have any thoughts about this apparent anomaly? There is no evidence that the case number was mis-stamped or that an additional digit was too-softly struck. Was anyone reproducing these cases at any point, and if so could this be one of them?

I'd also note that the watch has the neat "arrows-out" Hammy dial that I understand was made only ca. 1936.

All thoughts appreciated.

 
Posts: 1113 | Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota in the USA | Registered: October 15, 2013
IHC Member 1955
Picture of Michael P. McNamee
posted
Front of Model 10 Case:

 
Posts: 1113 | Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota in the USA | Registered: October 15, 2013
IHC Member 1291
Picture of Buster Beck
posted
The Wadsworth 16sz cases that Hamilton used in 1924 with 7 number digits began with #6900000 on their "cross-bar" cases. By 1925 the numbering system started with 0100000, again 7 digits. That series continued until 1936 when the last 7 number digit was presumably 0999999. In mid 1936 the Wadsworth Model 10 cases came out and production of them continued until 1946-47. In our discussion it will be important to note that the patent date stamp, PAT 5-22-26 was discontinued in 1946, thereby we know this case was made prior to that date.

By 1937 Wadsworth had used up its 7 number system so they started using the letter "H" in place of the first digit but now they would use only 6 numbers following the letter. The H-Prefix thus began at H000001.

I am saying all of this to be able to portray that Wadsworth always used a 7 digit number or letter/number combination on their 16 size watch cases.

Since this 992E was made in 1935-1936-1937 by using John Gelson's list on IHC185, we know that a matching era correct case would have to of been made from about 1934 to 1937. With that in mind we can deduce Wink that if this case is in fact the original case that this watch left the factory in, then it seems that the last numbered digit in the 7 digit serial number is indeed missing.

This is about the only plausible answer to this dilemma that is upon us Smile

These things did happen from time to time. We know that by researching our own IHC185 history and watches that can be proven. As for instance I invite you to take a closer look at the late Ed Parson's thread "992B Examples in Brown Boxes" on page 4 and Set 28.

https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...073/m/7601094112/p/4

This is the first time anyone has caught this since Ed posted it almost 4 years ago, and even sharp eyed Ed himself overlooked it Wink By looking at this boxed example of 992B # C-216185 from 1948 you will see that Ed listed it as Case 2 #0007892. And sure enough when we look at the box label we do find that the Hamilton Watch Co. boxed, packaged, inventoried, sold, and shipped this watch to the buyer with that case number on the box Eek
Now scroll down and look at the actual case number on Ed's watch. What Eek Why sure enough and never caught before by Hamilton, and all those years and Ed himself, Wadsworth left off the first digit in their 7 number system, a "0".

So we have to say that sometimes these things happened. They do make a good story, don't they Big Grin That's why its so much fun to research these antique horological wonders and you never know when the next anomaly will surface Wink

regards,
bb

 
Posts: 6427 | Location: Texas in the USA | Registered: July 27, 2009
Picture of Richard Romero
posted
Michael,

Reading the Wadsworth-Hamilton Case Numbers History and Database Lindell explains how cases from about 1930-1936 are stamped. NOTE: Around 0500000 the case number layout had changed from straight line to a curved "v-shaped" formation.

Below is a picture of a case stamped as described above.

 
Posts: 1425 | Location: Fremont, California in the USA | Registered: February 06, 2010
Picture of Richard Romero
posted
An interesting detail is that your case back is stamped in a straight line. There are authentic examples consistent with your case.

Below is an example similar to yours.

 
Posts: 1425 | Location: Fremont, California in the USA | Registered: February 06, 2010
Picture of Richard Romero
posted
The arrows out dials add a nice touch to the 992E. They seem to have been used throughout the 992E years. Earlier it was posted they appear around 1937 plus or minus a year. Now I'm realizing that there are many of these dials seen earlier. I have an arrows out dial on my narrow pattern 992E. Searching this website and others I've found these dials on early 992E watches so I'll correct the previous post.

Here's a link to an early 992E watch with the arrows out dial.

First-Run (Narrow-Stripe Pattern) 992 Elinvar on eBay

RR

 
Posts: 1425 | Location: Fremont, California in the USA | Registered: February 06, 2010
IHC Member 1955
Picture of Michael P. McNamee
posted
Richard, I had meant to also ask about the straight-line case serial number, because I saw on Lindell's Hamilton Wadsworth Case post that Wadsworth had started the V-shape before my watch was made. Thanks for showing your similar example with the straight-line number.

Buster, thanks for the great analysis. It is indeed fun to find an anomaly like this one Smile
 
Posts: 1113 | Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota in the USA | Registered: October 15, 2013
Picture of Clark Reed
posted
Recent acquisition - I believe this to be the model 530 DOUBLE SUNK dial with Arabic Breguet numerals and the red 5 minute track. This dial was on a Hamilton 992 with a 1,620,xxx serial number.
Thanks to Richard Romero for the data he has mined so well. Hope this one is one of the few with the block signature and red outer track.


Clark Reed


 
Posts: 540 | Location: Anderson, South Carolina in the USA | Registered: April 09, 2013
Picture of Clark Reed
posted
The back side


Clark Reed


 
Posts: 540 | Location: Anderson, South Carolina in the USA | Registered: April 09, 2013
Picture of Clark Reed
posted
Another angle


Clark Reed


 
Posts: 540 | Location: Anderson, South Carolina in the USA | Registered: April 09, 2013
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