Hi everyone, finally got around signing up for NAWCC & IHC memberships. I've been lurking here for a while but never mustered up enough courage to weigh in with so many world class experts. My love affair with watches started 10 years ago that has gone through quartz, modern Swiss mechanical wristwatches, and finally led me to the greatest watch collecting arena of all, vintage pocket watches. I started my pocket watch collection with Gruens, which is still my favorite and most knowledgeable brand (I will really enjoy learning from Cary), and along the way I've added numerous 12-14 size American and European pieces (gotta learn from Robert Schussel). Hope to discuss and learn from you all, thanks!

Just as a starter here is my UltraThin Gruen in 14K Green gold case and 18K insert:
dial
http://www.dancebeauty.com/ftp_transfer/ben/watch/pics/...Thin/148739_dial.jpg
back
http://www.dancebeauty.com/ftp_transfer/ben/watch/pics/...Thin/148739_back.jpg
movement
http://www.dancebeauty.com/ftp_transfer/ben/watch/pics/...Thin/148739_movt.jpg

I guess the image tags didn't work, here are links to the pics:
UltraThin Dial
UltraThin Back
UltraThin Movement

Hi Ben,
WELCOME!

It's always great to see someone new come in, say hello, and then get so hooked on these gems, that before you know it, it's years later and your still at it. That's what happened to me!!!

You CAN REALLY get hooked when it comes to Vintage Pocket Watches, they "Grow" on you.

I have a few Gruens myself, and although not many, they really are a beautiful watch, and I do enjoy them a lot.

I can't wait to take a look at your pictures.

See ya soon.

I'm Back! WOW.......... very nice, you should post them in here. I'm sure everyone would love to see them when they come in.

try to post images again since it failed last time:
UltraThin Dial

UltraThin Back:

UltraThin Movement:

Thanks for your kind reply Sheila and Lindell! Certainly glad to become a member amongst the most prestigious club of horologists. I agree with Lindell 100% that Gruens are so underrated; mostly due to the lack of information about the brand and dominance of railroad watches collecting. Since the railroad watch arena was exclusive to the Swiss-Made Gruen, they directed their attention to dominate the luxury 'gentleman's watch' sector. They made watches that are thin, elegant, and well executed. All of their top-of-the-line pocket watches were as fine as products made by the best European makers of the Art Deco era. However Gruens are often left out of both categories of 'fine European watch' as well as 'fine American watch'. For the UltraThin I've shown I personally think the movement was outsourced by Gruen from other fine Swiss makers that specialized in Ultra-Thin type movements. Two that comes to mind are Touchon and Haas-Neveux. I've seen very similar Patek Ultra-Thin watches as well as watches from the 2 aforementioned brand. Perhaps someone has more insight on the origin of these Ultra-Thin watches?

Thanks a lot for the invitation Cort! I've already communicated with Chapter 5 president Frank Keillor about going on the 13th; I intend to sign up for the annual membership for Chapter 5 as well as 94 down in San Jose. I can't wait to join, and I guess I'll see you there (I presume I'm fairly easy to spot since I'm Asian and 27 years old).

Lindell, your Gruen pentagon is beautiful, and the condition is awesome! Currently I am dedicating myself to building a database for the in house Gruen pocket watchees (before they outsourced their production in the 1930s to unknown Swiss maker). With the help of another NAWCC member that kept an archive of Gruen watches he's seen or worked on throughout the years, so far I have around 500 specimens in my DB spread amongst all grades. Therefore, any contribution to my DB will be greatly appreciated (everyone submitting info is referenced). Lindell, your example should have a V2.5 19j escape jewel capped movement inside, either with or without 'Precision' marking. It'll be even better if you can show some more pics for it. I'll try to post some of the other Gruens I own when I modify the pictures, so stay tuned!

Welcome Ben,
That's a great looking Gruen you have there.

Ray

Ben,
Glad to have you on board. This horology site IMHO is the best on the internet.

The Gruen Ultra Thin was their top of the line model.
Roy Ehrhardts Gruen Master Book provides pictures of 21 of the Ultra Thin models produced. Yours appears most similar to the Model 2 or 4 . However neither of these models had dials with raised gold letters.

While most Ultra Thins came in 14kt or 18kt solid gold cases ( there are also pictures of Platinium cases) examples in gold filled cases are known. I own one in a Gruen gold filled case.

Most have Gruen dials but I own a private label with Bigelow Kennard & Co. on the dial in a plain Platinium case.

These watches are not often seen but typically go for $550 to $800 on EBay depending on how fancy the case is.

Ben, yours is a very nice example.

Bob

Thanks Ray, Tony, and Robert. Robert, I don't own a copy of Gruen master book but have seen quite a few examples of either UltraThin, Ultra Ultra Thin or these grades with Dietrich Gruen inscription. However, I've never seen a 21j version of this series of movements. Again, the bridge layout screams outsourcing by Gruen, with very similar examples by Touchon, Haas Neveux, or even Patek (they probably outsourced as well) and nearly identical movement from these makers I've never seen 21j example (19j or 18j). Since you are the 12-size expert, and nearly all Gruen products are 12s, I feel you must have quite an impressive collection of rare Gruens. Since I am building the database, I'll love to put your specimens in it. I noticed that you live in Vallejo and do you attend the NAWCC chapter 5 meetings? I just went to my first one today, and met some wonderful people (nice meeting Cort Moore). We live close enough that perhaps we can meet in the near future if you'll let me record down info for your Gruens? My email is hsiungben@yahoo.com.

It was nice to meet you today too Ben.
When I got back to my office I checked my Gruen pocket watch "bone yard". I have 15 or so watches in various states other than complete. perhaps the saddest is a 21J 16S "chronometer" that is cased, dialed, good balance etc. but, the pallet is AWOL!

At some point you could come over to Berkeley to
record numbers or I could bring them to the Chap.94 meeting if that is more convenient. I will send you an email with my contact info.

I'm glad you enjoyed the chapter 5 mart. It was bustling today!
-Cort

I collect C.H. Meylans. Ben, your Gruen looks like a C.H. Meylan to me. Below is picture of a similar C.H. Meylan movement. In my next posting, I will show you a Cresarrow Watch Co. PL version of the same movement. If I am correct, C.H. Meylan made the Cresarrow movement. If so, it undoubtedly made your Gruen movement. Your watch is beautiful.

Cresarrow version

Ben
I don't have a lot of Gruens but I will try to get a list together.What town are you located in?I tend to specialise more in American 12 size movements and when I can afford them Swiss 12 size ultra flat movements

I think the Ultra Thin only came in a 19j version. I do have a 21j Dietrich Gruen but it has the the more traditional layout with a Chronometer Balance.

One of my favorites is the Louis VIV model. I have a photo what is shown below.

movement

I only have one Gruen Ultra Verithin. It is a 17 jewel movement. amd it does not resemble any C.H. Meylan movement I have ever seen,

Hi Ethan and Robert: thanks a lot for your input. Ethan, I think your suggestion of CH Meylan making Gruen's UltraThin movement has a lot of merit. The fact that Meylan was such a highly reputable watchmaking company from 1900-1925 could've made big watch brands like Gruen and Patek to commission movement production from Meylan. However, at the same time no one really knows what types of UltraThin movements Meylan produced and which ones were sold to whom. Although I've not seen more similar UltraThin movement design than what you've shown here, a lot of designs from several high grade makers were very similar. CH Meylan's most common UltraThin design I've seen is slightly different from the one you've shown:

Robert, I'm located in Hayward. Your Louis XIV shown is absolutely beautiful. The Louis XIV dial and case were truly marvelous designs. Your Louis XIV looks to have a 17j chronometer balance and is a V3 model. Here is my VE extra 21j in the same bridge layout: