Internet Horology Club 185
Brandt Railroad Watch Grade CCCR Canadian

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November 26, 2014, 22:24
Victor Kienas
Brandt Railroad Watch Grade CCCR Canadian
I think that everyone thinks that this should be in a hunter case.i just went and put it into a hunter case I had for another project I had on the looks nice in a nice gold filled case with no brassing.i was looking through the net and stumbled on to a brandt ccr 19 jewel watch displayed on another site.what would you think when I tell you it had the same style case as the original one I got with the is an open face case also with the watch in it sidewinder style.just a coincidence.I don't think so...these must have come that way..what do you think.i might have to put the movement back in the original case it came is the only watch that was ever in the old case by the screw marks.what do you think.....
November 27, 2014, 00:09
Victor Kienas
here are a couple pictures of the other brandt I found.same sidewinder type in an open face just like mine..

November 27, 2014, 00:10
Victor Kienas
movement ccr

November 27, 2014, 09:05
Buster Beck
We are here to help you and not to steer anyone wrong. Because you found another Brandt in a sidewinder configuration means again that it is a re-case also. Today a hunting case is more difficult to find than an open face case and generally cost more money. Therefore a lot of sellers and regular folks alike will put a hunting case movement in an open faced case to have a watch to carry and/or market when they don't have a hunting case at hand.

But this watch is yours and you can certainly put it in any case you like. But we aren't going to prescribe to or believe for a nano second that it came from the factory as a sidewinder. Some folks even like sidewinders, or so it would seem. The "other" market place currently has 97 offerings when one does a search specifically for "sidewinder pocket watch". When you run through those 97 offerings you will find every manufacturer represented in a re-case sidewinder configuration. That means that you will find 8-10 watches from each major manufacturer now re-cased into a sidewinder configuration.

We were not present back when these watches were produced or sold from the factory for the most part. However we do have many different factory advertisements and ads in different publications and a few factory records and memos within divisions and to customers that leave a "footprint" behind for us to logically come to the conclusions that we adhere to today. Nowhere do we see any mention of the term "sidewinder" being manufactured, offered, or advertised.

Furthermore in all likelihood a RRG/RRA watch in a sidewinder configuration during the time of the Brandt Omega manufacturing period of these DDR/CCCR wouldn't have been allowed in service on most of the nations rail road systems since the winding stem isn't at the 12 O'clock position. The Brandt Omega DDR/CCCR were most certainly manufactured and marketed for the rail road personnel.

Typically when we see a watch that goes "against the grain" or is not in the proper configuration or an assemblage of different parts, we dismiss it quite rapidly as a watch that we call a "frankenwatch" or perhaps a "sidewinder"......

We do this because we are all about horology on IHC185.

[Horology (via Latin horologium from Greek ὡρολόγιον, from ὥρα hṓra "hour; time" and -o- interfix and suffix -logy; lit. "the study of time") is the art or science of measuring time. Clocks, watches, clockwork, sundials, hourglasses, clepsydras, timers, time recorders, marine chronometers, and atomic clocks are all examples of instruments used to measure time. In current usage, horology refers mainly to the study of mechanical time-keeping devices, while chronometry more broadly includes electronic devices that have largely supplanted mechanical clocks for the best accuracy and precision in time-keeping.

People interested in horology are called horologists. That term is used both by people who deal professionally with timekeeping apparatus (watchmakers, clockmakers), as well as aficionados and scholars of horology. Horology and horologists have numerous organizations, both professional associations and more scholarly societies.]

We remain both professional and scholarly at IHC 185 and are committed to helping anyone with their questions who come forward looking for answers that have gone unanswered.

November 27, 2014, 16:17
David Abbe
Victor, while your watch will always look "right" in a hunter case, the Banner open face case that originally came with your Brandt CCCR is exclusively Canadian-made.

That Banner case can be easily understood as a "replacement" for the original that was possibly 14K Gold. So in the 1930's the owner traded the original for grocery money plus a good open face case.

All of that is speculation now but I understand and agree putting it back in a Hunter case. Look for a Canadian-made Hunter.
November 27, 2014, 18:39
Victor Kienas
I never meant to argue with anyones opinion.this site is awesome.some people may take things out of context.these brandt movements may have been available without cases and someone may have put them in an open face case from the start.who actually knows for sure..the Canadian standards for the railway watches were different from the USA.i realize the movement is a hunting type.i only took up watch collecting and repair a little over a year ago.mostly by hands on and some internet.i have a collection of over 100 watches from bits and pieces and ones not running.all of them run and I have been on a verge fusee kick for the last few months.i have over 20 of them that I have repaired and nursed back to life.with them you cant just take a part from another and fit it right in.everyone I have seen is different in some way with no 2 quite the same.they are a real challenge but I spend hours and hours on each watch just because the workmanship on them is tremendous for being that old.i have my oldest being about 1750 by the French maker romiley all the way up to the 1830S and then some of the lever fuse watches also.i love to repair these old beauties and bring them back to life.i would like to thank David Abbe for all of his help and his special welcoming me in to this site.he has went out of his way to help me in many ways.thanks David.always enjoy talking to you.i finally learned how to post pictures now I think so I will give it a try with a couple pictures of the recased Brant.not a mint case but one I had so I used it..

November 27, 2014, 18:40
Victor Kienas

November 27, 2014, 18:40
Victor Kienas
case 2

November 27, 2014, 18:55
David Abbe
Nice!, you're questions are always welcome and we are always glad to help look for answers.
November 27, 2014, 20:56
Lorne Wasylishen
Good job! It looks happy and at home.
November 30, 2014, 16:15
Victor Kienas
I decided to test the waters out there for this watch.i listed it on ebay and will see how desirable it is.who knows.
December 06, 2014, 20:12
Lorne Wasylishen
I decided to test the waters out there for this watch.i listed it on ebay and will see how desirable it is.who knows.

Anybody have an ebay link to this one, I was unable to find it but would like to know how it did.

December 07, 2014, 00:51
Victor Kienas
back to our earlier discussion about a hunting configuration in a open face case....I just read in the.. price guide to watches.. that only open face watches were allowed for railway use.i have seen 2 of these watches in the hunter configuration in open face Banner gold filled there a possibility they came in a open face case from the start because they were for railway use.i think that it is possible that someone could go to a jeweler and buy the movement and get it put in the case they wanted.that would still be the original case to that movement.can anyone actually be sure that wasn't so.i am open to feed back.
December 07, 2014, 01:58
Lorne Wasylishen
Anything is possible. Most collectors would prefer a hunting movement in a hunting case, simple as that.

Some of those regulations, and they were different for different railways/railroads, required the winding stem to be at the 12 o'clock position which would preclude a hunting movement in an open face case.

This is a portion of the 1910 Canadian Northern Railway rule book, as you can see hunting case watches were acceptable for service at that time.

The same page is contained in the Grand Trunk Pacific rule book of 1911.

December 07, 2014, 11:37
Victor Kienas
thanks for the is at $1000 right now on ends in a couple hours.
December 07, 2014, 13:36
Lorne Wasylishen
I still can't find it, can you post a link or show how it is listed?
December 07, 2014, 14:09
Victor Kienas
if you search for brandt pocket watch,it will come up.if that doesn't work,the ebay item # 191431887418
December 07, 2014, 14:18
Lorne Wasylishen
There is something haywire somewhere, neither method brings it up for me. Let us know what it goes for.
December 07, 2014, 15:01
Victor Kienas
just go into the top search area type in brandt pocket will come up.i tried it many times.make sure the spelling is correct.brandt...
December 07, 2014, 15:44
Lorne Wasylishen
I give up, neither of those search criteria give me anything and I even had a friend look for it on another computer……..nothing.

Either post a live link in the "Pitfalls" section or just let us know what the final price was.

"uncle" Smile
December 07, 2014, 16:44
Victor Kienas
watch sold for opening bid of $1000.
December 10, 2014, 09:27
Mark Cross
Lorne, what I also find interesting in your posted rule book is they apparently also still accepted keywind watches in 1911. They must have grandfathered a LOT of stuff at that time. Confused

Regards! Mark