I have a gentlemans 14K yellow gold hunting case pocket watch: the back inside cover is inscribed with Ancre, Remontoir,Chaton, Ligne droite, 18 Rubis, Spiral Breguet, P 151861.
The front cover has a date 1892
What is the brand? Remontoir?
It is in excellent condition and it runs. I plan on selling it and I need advice on how much this pocket watch is worth. Thanks! gostars2@earthlink.net

Hi Amy, That description you give is a good start.

So far is must be a anchor lever escapement, 18 Jewel (maybe) Breguet spiral type hairspring movement. We now know the maovment design. Much more is needed to ascertain the actual value.

Now to finalize an approximate value, please show pictures of the Dial, the inside proof marking of the covers, the movement and the approximate diameter of the case.

put your camera on "macro" (flower pot icon) without flash and you should get some good pictures of these things.

Inside the front cover

Face

both sides open.
The watch is 2 inches wide

The works

The front of the case and date.

It has the appearance and correct serial number range for a "period corect" IWC Cal 66 HUnter Case movement which in that 14K Gold case can bring $700-$800 in an auction.

So you are saying IWC Cal 66 is the brand?

I also posted another watch that is a wrist watch that I cannot find anything about it's a "Weiss"
have you ever heard of that brand?

Amy sent the watch over for me take a few photos under the dial, all I can find is 63 864
nothing on the rear of dial either. Can anyone add more information on this?

2

This is such a common ebauch that almost anyone could have finished it.

Bob

Amy, sorry about coming in on your topic late, don't get quite so much free time these days.

Quite a long post by necessity, so please bear with me folks! (might be a day or three before I can come back here again).

To break down the inscription and add to what Dave has already posted:

Ancre as stated is for the 'Anchor' escapement, which alludes to the shape of the pallets on the lever - similar to an old fashioned ships anchor in shape!.

Remontoir: This term would more correctly be used to describe a 'Secondary' winding mechanism employed to wind the 'Primary' mechanism so that any winding forces do not impinge directly upon the gear train of a timepiece and affect it's action - be it a clock or watch.

Simply, in this case, it means that the watch is wound by the stem and crown rather than a key.
It could therefore be interpreted that the human being or machine winding the watch is the 'Secondary' winding mechanism!.......

'Chaton' is a term I've never come across engraved on a watch before, but my guess it refers to the 'Screw set chaton' on the centre wheel.

Ligne Droite: Is the style of the lever, which in this case, is a 'Straight line' type, where the balance, pallet staff and escape wheel pivots are all on the same centre line. (Straight Line).
With no load on the train, and the escapement perfectly 'in beat', the roller jewel would be central in the fork, and the lever shaft positioned exactly central between the 'banking pin's' - more of this later ref your watch - as it probably doesn't have them!

18 Rubis: Refers to the number of Ruby jewels in the movement.

Dave was quite right to question this count, because unless the centre Wheel is jewelled under the cannon pinion, and maybe another one secreted away in the mainspring barrel body (most logical place), I only count 16 jewels.
If there ain't extra jewels in there to account for 18, then some varmint has performed a bit of creative artwork on the back slope of the digit '6' !
If Chris still has the watch, maybe he can bail us out here.

Spiral Breguet Refers to the style and type of hairspring used, which in this case is a flat spiral hairspring with an overcoil as invented by Breguet.
Generally speaking, it's a flat spiral hairspring with an overcoil of a particular shape formed on the final curve - starting about half a turn plus before the stud.

OK, I mentioned no banking pins!
The lever on your watch has a 'moustache' style lever - this appears not only to be a counterposing device - which helps to balance out unequal masses on the ends of a long and heavy lever, it also appears in this case to use the forks of the 'moustache' as a banking device - banking on the escape wheel staff.
Can't see it properly, so I could be wrong here ..... Chris again could confirm or rubbish my theory!

As this type of lever is an early incarnation, it is quite heavy compared to modern stuff.
The pallets will be a solid polished steel component with shaped pallet faces, slit with a fine slitting saw, then Ruby slips inserted - probably locked in place with shellac.

The lever itself, will consist of the fork for the roller and guard pin, a shaft bearing the staff and its collet, and the fork on t'other end for counterpoise and banking.
The pallet component will then be either screwed or riveted to the underside of the lever once callibrated for drop and lock - this is likely to have been a jig based operation, but much of this stuff will have been hand made and fitted.

If it helps buck up your spirits a tad, as Dave stated, IWC certainly manufactured ebauches finished to this style and standard, and so did Vacheron along with a few others.
Run of the mill watch houses churning out cheap tickers for the masses, would not have invested the time, money and expertise required to finish a movement to this standard.

Bob is partially correct in that almost anyone could have finished it, but I would cautiously add the rider that whomever Did finish it, had membership of a Very Select minority of high end watch houses.

If the movement had a cylinder type escapement, then I would agree with Bob 100% that the ebauche is very common.
Because it is obviously an early incarnation of a straight line lever (why tout it on the case otherwise), I think Bob and me will have to agree to disagree on this point, because common it ain't!
I would again add a rider, that 'common' is relative to the numbers an individual has seen.
They may be common in America and in Bob's hands, but not this side of the pond or in my experience, and certainly Not of this calibre!

Your watch is solid gold, which in itself, is going to add masses of value.
The danger is, that a scrapper will buy it cheaper than it should be just for the gold content!

If it helps, an almost identical uncased movement, marketed as an IWC, went recently on eBay UK for around £200GBP - if I can find the listing again, I'll post details.

So 'chin up' Amy, you got a Very Very nice watch there!

Apologies again for my lack of brevity.

John

For some additional interest regarding this ebauche style, I've posted below, pic's of the only one I have that comes anywhere near close to Amy's watch - virtually a mirror image.

This watch was sported on eBay as a 'Vacheron'.
The seller was quite honest and admitted he wasn't really too sure but he cautiously listed it as such based on his research.

The movement was retailed by Thomas Russell & Son, Liverpool, who frequently used ebauches by Longines and watch houses of a similar ilk for his 'high end' watches.

This movement has no screw set chatons, but it is fully jewelled to the third wheel, plus a top and bottom cap jewel on the escape wheel.
It also has the same style 'Moustache' lever which appears to bank on the escape staff, and a Breguet overcoil hairspring.
What marked this one out from the crowd, is the 'Wolfs Tooth' winding wheels on the mainspring gear.
The mainspring barrel was at one time also fitted with 'Geneva Stopwork' which typically, has gone walkies!

John

Dial plate side.

This ebauche has a separate plate carrying the jewel holes for the train wheels.

John

These are fairly bog standard ebauche of a similar style.

These photo's including the Russell represent nearly All of this style of lever ebauche that I've had through my hands in over 15 years of messing with watches.
My spares bin alone had a couple of hundred various types in it as well as a similar number of complete watches in my collection, which was 60/40% Swiss and English.
From my own experience, I can't honestly say they're too common.

John

Not quite the same, but with cocks for the train wheels.
Note the chunky lever and hunk of steel hanging over the end for counterpoising.

John

Shot of the last one of its type I have.

Again note the heavy lever, but with a 'Hockey Stick' for counterpoise.
Also engraved with the legend ' Chronometer balance'!

All of these movements are either key wind/set or stem wind/pin set.
Your watch Amy is very unusually for its era, Lever set!

John

Hi John,

Thanks for taking the time to write all the above, Banking pins are as with many of this type part of the plates non adjustable, cannot see the mystery 18th jewel without disassembling it.
I believe that Amy wished to sell the watch in time, it maybe as mentioned in the style of many sought after named watches, however the fact remains its not marked and remains a typical Swiss watch of little interest/desirability here in the USA if it was to appear at auction (I have draws full of better quality Swiss watch movement with no value other than parts) I think the only interest in this watch would be the gold value in the current market, and of course being lower end Swiss is as thin as paper with huge HC springs etc.