I have been researching serial numbers for Gruen watches. One of the serial number lists on one of the Gruen web pages is grossly inaccurate and attribute Columbus Watch company serial numbers to Gruen production starting in 1876. However, the Dietrick Gruen & Son Watch company did organize until after Dietrick and his son were relieved of the duties at the Columbus Watch Company in 1894. Therefore the earliest possible watch serial numbers for Gruens can not be attributed to any dates prior to 1894.

It appears from my research that Gruen Serial numbers started over with each name change of the Company. however, I am not totally sure of this point.

Here is my question: Does anyone know when Dietrick Gruen started using serial numbers? I have three Gruen watches with no visual serial numbers on the movement. They imported watches first from Germany and then from Switzerland. All Two of the watches are signed Gruen Guild and one is signed D. Gruen & Son. Are the serial numbers found under the dials? Did they make a run of watches without any serial numbers? Does anyone know for sure?

All Gruen Watch Factory records are believed to have been destroyed. Here is Information on Serial numbers I have gathered to date. If you would like to include serial numbers of watches you have, I would appreciate it.

Serial Company
Number Name
474 Gruen Watch Company Extra Precision
21933 Gruen Guild Guild SemiThin
33859 Gruen Guild SemiThin
62001 D Gruen & Son
66694 Gruen Guild Gruen
127674 D Gruen & Son Madretsch
129572 D Gruen & Son Gruen Extra
137547 D Gruen & Son Precision
138144 D Gruen & Son ?
140167 D Gruen & Son Precision
461232 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin
468750 Gruen Watch Company Gruen Veri-thin
472682 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin
484309 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin
506208 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin
541713 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin Precision
544818 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin
552690 Gruen Watch Company Ultra VeriThin
605166 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin
711516 Gruen Guild SemiThin
2-219954 Gruen Watch Company Veri-Thin Precision
2-327612 Gruen Watch Company Veri-Thin
2-328087 Gruen Watch Company Gruen Veri-Thin
4-125142 Gruen Watch Company Veri-Thin
4-133613 Gruen Watch Company Veri-Thin Precision
4-230555 Gruen Watch Company Veri-Thin Precision
4-232560 Gruen Watch Company Veri-Thin
No Number Gruen Gruen
No Number Gruen Guild Gruen
No Number Gruen Guild Gruen

Hi Ernie,
veri-thin 4-151492
Bill

Thanks Bill

My initial goal was to simply put some time frames in place. But after gathering some data it appears I may first get a date sequence by sigature types on the dials and movements. An early observation of my research appears that Gruen started their serial number sequence over each time they changed names or locations. I am not sure yet, it is just a preliminary observation.

If you would like to help in this research please post any Gruens you have. I would like serial number, signature on dial, signature on movement.

If it is a VeriThin I would like to know if there is a hyphen between Veri and Thin. I would also like to know if the watch is unadjusted, adjusted to how many positions and how many jewels it has.

Thank you in advance.

Ernie

Ernie

If it helps I would like to add some data found on european webpages:

137547, DG &S GRUEN PRECISION MADRETSCH, GRUEN-PRECISION

484867, Gruen Watch Company VeriThin, masonic dial,17j, adjusted 5 positions and temp (1918 paper and presentation engraving)

no number, Gruen Guild, Gruen

2-54xxx, Gruen Watch Company, Gruen

Thank you Gerald, It helps.

Here is my latest update: (serial #, Movement Signature, dial Signature)

474 Gruen Watch Company Extra Precision
21933 Gruen Guild Guild SemiThin
33859 Gruen Guild SemiThin
62001 D Gruen & Son
65077 Gruen Guild ?
66694 Gruen Guild Gruen Case engraved 1928
127674 D Gruen & Son Madretsch
129572 D Gruen & Son Gruen Extra
137547 D Gruen & Son Precision
138144 D Gruen & Son Madretsch
140167 D Gruen & Son Gruen Precision
313471 Gruen Precision Gruen Precision
461232 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin
468750 Gruen Watch Company Gruen Veri-thin
472682 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin
484309 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin
484867 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin Case Engraved 1918
496058 Gruen Watch Company Veri-Thin
506208 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin
541713 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin Precision
544818 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin
547011 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin
552690 Gruen Watch Company Ultra VeriThin
605166 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin
711343 Gruen Guild SemiThin
711516 Gruen Guild SemiThin
850685 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin
2-219954 Gruen Watch Company Veri-Thin Precision
2-327612 Gruen Watch Company Veri-Thin
2-328087 Gruen Watch Company Gruen Veri-Thin
4-125142 Gruen Watch Company Veri-Thin Case engraved 1943
4-133613 Gruen Watch Company Veri-Thin Precision
4-151492 Gruen Watch Company Veri-Thin
4-230555 Gruen Watch Company Veri-Thin Precision
4-232560 Gruen Watch Company Veri-Thin
4-233057 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin Precision
No Number Gruen Gruen
No Number Gruen Guild Gruen
No Number Gruen Guild Gruen

Here are some dates I have been able extract from different sources:

1874: Dietrich Gruen Patented Improved Safety Pinion
1876: Started Columbus Watch Company
1879: Gruen & Savage
1894: D. Gruen & Son
1898: D. Gruen & Sons, dials signed with DG&S logo
1900: The D. Gruen, Sons & Co., Gruen Watch Mfg. Co., Continued DG&S Logo on movements until after the move to Switzerland
1900: Moved some production from West Germany to Switzerland, size 12 watches began with hand-painted Verithin in Script
1910: Dials were signed just “Gruen”
1911:Gruen Watch Makers Guild, dials were signed VeriThin in block letters. VeriThins were produced in Switzerland. Dietrich Gruen died. Grades were Gruen Guild, Precision, and Extra precision.
1915: Introduced the Louis XIV VeriThin watch
1922: Introduced Pentagon Watch Case
1922: Made limited number of 50th Anniversary watches in Pentagon Case
1930: Started using hyphen in Veri-Thin

Ernie

The DG & S marked watches like the one I had are Dietrich Gruen and Sons

62609 D. Gruen & Son, D. Gruen & Son Precision Watch (that's another one of the german Assmann watches).

469691 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin ; Gruen VeriThin; 17j adj 5 positions temperatures; (can be dated 1917 by engraving)

42421 Gruen Watch Company Dietrich Gruen ; Dietrich Gruen (winding indicator)

528203 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin Precision; Gruen VeriThin ; 17j adjusted temperatures

63273 D. Gruen & Sons (writen);D. Gruen & Sons Precision Watch (another Assmann)

557783 Gruen Watch Company Ultra-VeriThin Precision; Gruen Precision ; 17j unadjusted

Thanks again Gerald.

Ernie

New serial number update with dates from Engraved Cases: We don't know when the cases were engraved but we know the watch was made before the engraved date.

474 Gruen Watch Company Extra Precision
21933 Gruen Guild Guild SemiThin
33859 Gruen Guild SemiThin
42421 Gruen Watch Company Deitrich Gruen
47386 Gruen Guild VeriThin
62001 D Gruen & Son
62609 D Gruen & Son D Gruen & S Precison
65077 Gruen Guild ?
66694 Gruen Guild Gruen 1928
101760 Gruen Guild Gruen
127674 D Gruen & Son Madretsch
129572 D Gruen & Son Gruen Extra
137547 D Gruen & Son Precision
138144 D Gruen & Son Madretsch
140167 D Gruen & Son Gruen Precision
313471 Gruen Precision Gruen Precision
461232 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin
468750 Gruen Watch Company Gruen Veri-thin
469691 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin 1917
472682 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin
484309 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin
484867 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin 1918
496058 Gruen Watch Company Veri-Thin
506208 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin
517242 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin Precision 1925
518969 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin Precision
521156 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin Precision
528203 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin Precision
541713 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin Precision
544818 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin
547011 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin 1926
549973 Gruen Watch Company Ultra VeriThin Precision
552690 Gruen Watch Company Ultra VeriThin
555328 Gruen Watch Company Ultra VeriThin - Precision
561747 Gruen Watch Company Gruen 1937
605166 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin
605896 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin
632273 D Gruen & Son D Gruen & Son Precision
711343 Gruen Guild SemiThin
711516 Gruen Guild SemiThin
850685 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin
5577783 Gruen Watch Company Ultra Veri-Thin
2-219954 Gruen Watch Company Veri-Thin Precision
2-327612 Gruen Watch Company Veri-Thin
2-328087 Gruen Watch Company Gruen Veri-Thin
4-125142 Gruen Watch Company Veri-Thin 1943
4-133613 Gruen Watch Company Veri-Thin Precision
4-151492 Gruen Watch Company Veri-Thin
4-230555 Gruen Watch Company Veri-Thin Precision
4-232560 Gruen Watch Company Veri-Thin
4-233057 Gruen Watch Company VeriThin Precision
No Number Gruen Gruen
No Number Gruen Guild Gruen
No Number Gruen Guild Gruen

movement is marked Gruen Guild, 15 Jewels, Adjusted, Switzerland, 754 and a serial number of 128303. The case is marked Gruen 10k goldfilled made in Canada and has the number 922216. It has an inscription dating it to 1934

Regards Gerald

My Gruen wrist Watch just says on the movement 17 Jewel #3934 nothing else

any help on dating this gruen would be helpfull as i don't have a camera or scanner

Ernie here are the markings on my Gruen Pocket Watch: 63710 Extra Made H. Muhr's Sons by D. Gruen & Sons Dresden. The dial is marked H. Muhr;s Sons Precision Philadelphia.

Is this an Assman model? Looks like 21j but not marked.

Happy to share this
info. - Vince

Howdy
I didn't realize I was a registered member here until someone recently said they were a member and I stopped in to check things out.

I too have been researching Gruen serial numbers, so we've been working in parallel.

I am unsure of all the rules here about posting info about other sites, but I've got a Gruen fan site where I've discussed my progress, request for help, etc. www.GruenWristwatches.com . Please register if you're a Gruen fan!! (also read the instructions on registering please to get you in quickly).

Anyway, what I've figured out to date, by collecting serial numbers for WRISTWATCHES is that there has been several restarts and modifications to the format.

I learned that the early days (pocket watches), the location of manufacturing came into play.

For Wristwatches, I found restarts at or around:
1924
1930
1940
1950

Each time things got a little more weird. I need much help with my research, particularly in the later 1940's years when movements really took off. Formats started to include letter & number prefixes.

I would say I've made a fair number of "breakthroughs" by data mining, but I have a long ways to go. It is by no means a trivial feate.

I'll give a quick example of some of my data and perhaps you can match it up against what you know/have in your collection. The early 1940's:
1940 (approx) 0
1941 - 240,000
1943 - 270,000
1945 - 350,000


The OVERALL approach I'm using is examining the YEAR EACH CALIBER STARTED PRODUCTION. These "milestones" within the serial number data help pinpoint the start of the numbers for that year. For a year that a caliber (say "X") started production, the earliest number I find on a movement "X" will help tell me the serial numbers that are in that year's range.


I think this is some pretty hard, back-breaking work, but it's something I have been working on off and on and would welcome some sort of team effort.

Sorry to jump into this thread at a mid-point and hope I haven't ruffled anyone in the process. I enjoy researching Gruen stuff which is the reason I'm speaking up.

-mike

Michael;

SORRY FOR THE LATENESS IN REPLYING TO YOUR POST. WE HAD A HOUSE FIRE IN JANUARY 2010 AND WE DIDN'T GET BACK INTO OUR HOME UNTIL OCTOBER 2010. NEEDLESS TO SAY WORKING WITH MY WATCHES HAS TAKEN A BACK BURNER AND ALMOST FELL OFF THE STOVE. BUT WE ARE JUST NOW GETTING BACK TO SOME MORE RESEARCH ON GRUEN WATCHES.

THANKS FOR YOUR INFORMATION.YOU ARE CONFIRMING MY SUSPICIONS AND CONCUR WITH MY FINDINGS. IF YOU LOOK AT THE PREVIOUS POSTS REGARDING SERIAL NUMBERS YOU FIND THEY STARTED OVER A NUMBER OF TIMES. I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO PUT SOME DATE FOR SERIAL NUMBERS BY USING ENGRAVED DATES FOUND ON CASES. THE PROBLEM WE HAVE IS WE DON'T KNOW IF THE ENGRAVED DATE WAS PLACED ON A NEW WATCH OR ON A WATCH THAT HAD BE AROUND FOR AWHILE. BUT IT GIVES US A BALL PARK ERA.

Ernie,here's one I just received 12size Veri-Thin 15 jewels unadjusted s/n 4-121626

movement marked Gruen Watch co. Veri-Thin fifteen 15 jewels unadjusted 4-121626 Switzerland 6xc conoruma

movt.