Hi
A friend has asked me about this watch, I can’t make out if it is a Swiss fake or not fully jeweled, the information on the plates is as follows.

JONESON WATCH Co
BOSTON MASS
No 11224

p2

p3

Hi Chris !
looks like a dead ringer for a model 1857
if it is not fake then it would have been made in july of 1858 by the appleton tracy co. just weeks before they formed the american watch co.
it would have been in the S# group 11101 to 11300
produced between 7/1/1858 and 7/31/1858
p s bartlett and nl 18 size 7 / 15 jewels ballance steel or gold .
if you have access to the book:"origins of the waltham model 57" by ron price
it includes a section on fake m#57 watches

It is a near ringer to a model 57, but there are a cuple of nuances that say Swiss Fake. The shade of the gilt plates shouts Swiss Fake, and the Jewel settings just do not match the 1858 era of American Watch Co.

The real test would be to take it out of the case. My guess is that the dial has only two feet.

Tom

Hi Doug, Tom,

I have asked the owner to take it out and have a look, he tells me that it is jeweled fully, which make me think maybe a 57, then the names Joneson?, is that a Swiss twist for Johnson?

Here is your watch next to two 1857 models from 1857 and 1864 ... I can find no movments with only 3 jewels showing on the top plate ... compare the distance of the 2 screws at the top ...food for thought
the name ? if it is real... possibly a local jewler , private lable ect.
if it's a fake maybe an attempt to hide the fact or confuse the issue

Chris,

It is a Swiss fake...no question..

Thanks Doug & John.
Will let him know.

My friend just wrote back saying that it DOES have 3 footed dial and he added,

4 jewels on the balance staff
3 big ones on the upper plate for show perhaps
a jeweled roller
a jeweled escapement.
Not solid jewels like we see now but a metal pallet with a jewel of the same size set into it where it touches the escape wheel.
I am sure there is a technical name for this but I know not what it is.
That gives 10 jewels but there is nothing on the watch about how many it has.
Could this watch have been made in England and come to USA during the Civil war period?

Does this shed any more light on it

The above also appears to me to be a Swiss fake. I rebuilt a bunch of M57's and Swiss fake M57's about ten years ago for some Civil War buffs who wanted authentic watches for re-enacting.

The early Swiss fakes are often of acceptable to good quality. Sometimes they have three dial feet. There were a few Swiss fakes which appeared to me to be as good if not better than some original M1857 movements I was working on.

As noted, the name on this watch is a dead giveaway, also the silverish cast of the guilding. In addition, the thick ended hands look like original Swiss-fake hands. (which is rather nice; to have the original hands.)

If your friend would like to look much closer,another clue can be found under the plates. Swiss fakes often have crossed scratch marks from the depthing tools used to layout the pivot holes. American Watch Co. products don't have such marks.

Could it be Civil War vintage? Yes. In the early 1860's, fake watches were a big consumer problem in the U.S. In 1869, legislation was passed which required the country of origin to be marked on imported watches.

Swiss or English?: Swiss. English fakes were composed of English trade watches of ordinary quality marked with the name of a high-grade English maker. The English trade did not make fake American watches because they did not have to, the English watch had a well established reputation. On the other hand, Swiss fakes imitated English, French and American watches in name and often in style. In the Swiss watch trade imitations of the M1857 American Watch Co. movement were known as "Boston Watches."

BTW, your friend has a rather nice "Boston" watch, which appears to be in good condition with original Swiss-fake hands. These watches are collectable.

Best regards,
Greg