Would love to get the collective thoughts on this one. I bought it because 'I liked the look of it' as simple as that. it's an English lever, fusee with a diamond jewel to the balance. Seems generally quite good quality, e.g the steel components are highly polished and the case is VERY heavy , a lot of silver has been used (4.5 oz inc movement) and winds like a dream, like driving a Mercedes.
Not sure of the year and would appreciate if someone will advise, date 'letter' is captal 'O' (for onion)
Doesn't keep very good time, loses about 20 mins in 24 hours, amplitude not good and sometimes stops after about 2 hours depending on postion any thoughts much appreciated

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Hi Terry,

Case is definitely hallmarked for Chester. Unfortunately, without a clear photo it's hard to be accurate with a date; it looks as though it could be 1897. This would tie in well with the casemakers mark "CH" being either Charles Harris or Charles Hill who were working in Coventry around this time. However, both these makers are recorded as striking their mark within a 'cameo' so the identification is "iffey". Can you post a clear photo of the marks on both inner and outer cases?

Dick

Hi Dick, or shouyld I say 'G'day!'

Thanks for getting back on this, have attached a few more photos which I hope makes things a little clearer.
One question, do you know what the small screw is for on the inside edge of the outer case

Kind regards

Terry

Outer case

Hit the send to quick!

Inner case

Terry,
Just stuck my head in the door for a look and seen your new topic.

Gorgeous watch! Nice to see there are still some Gems like that to be had in the UK
Don't see too many Pair Cased English levers at all these days even on eBay!

I've never understood why makers never signed pieces like this, as those with diamond endstones are usually a cut above average in quality as a general rule.

The screw in the case body is probably retaining the spring for the case button.

The hallmark as Dick stated is for Chester, but it looks like 1832 - it is a similar mark to that for 1810, but the shape of the Chester assay shield is ever so slightly different.

The only casemaker I can find at all using 'CH' incursive, is Charles Harle, 68 Wynyatt St, Islington Road London. He registered the mark on 13 July 1822 and is his only entry.

Enjoy the watch.

Best regards

John

Hi again Terry,

Thanks for the new pics! I still think the case is probably 1897 though, and for the following reasons.

First, from around 1701 Chester plate always displayed a Lion's head alongside the city shield. This was dropped at some point in the 1830's and 'Bradbury's' is unclear as to the exact date. However, if I read it correctly, it might even have been as late as 1839 when the new date letter was chosen. On the other hand it could have changed in 1830, when William came to the throne, or even in 1837 on Victoria's ascendency. If it was dropped in 1830 John's reading is correct but, if it was dropped after 1832 then 1897 still stands as the probable date for the case.

Second, the movement just looks like a relatively late one. If you take a close look at the type of roller table installed you might be able to date it from that. If it's the normal flat disc type it's unlikely to be early. On the other hand, if the roller is just a hub, or if it's a hub on a plate (Massey type) it's unlikely to be late!

Pair-cases were used until quite late in the game. I have a pair-case clearly dated for 1910 and I thought that might have been one of the last. Not so, I met a guy from the US who had one dated 1921!!!

Dick

Hi Terry,

for all the reasons Dick has mentioned I'm inclined to agree your watch is more likely from 1897.

I have a few English PW's from this timeframe, and they are all from the late 1880's - 1890's.

Can you take a couple of close ups of the movement so we can see
if there are any markings on it which may point to it's origin and it's age.

As you'll from the following images of this H. Samuel OF PW from Manchester England
the hallmarks and the style of movement identify it to the 1890's.

I think you'll also see a great deal of similarity in movement style and hallmarks to
those shown in Terry's watch.

Note for Chris Abell: maybe this was your great grandfather's watch ??



Figure I

Figure II

The Chester Hallmarks date the case to 1895-1896

Figure III

The H. Samuel fusee movement from Manchester England.

PS - I've just found another pair case watch from Chester, England on EBAY. Here's the link to it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Silver-Pair-Case-English-Lever-pock...sidZp1742.m153.l1262

Hi Dave,

Congratulations on finding my watch thought it was lost forever, I am look forward to its safe return

Chris,

Do you want to make me an offer I can't refuse ??