John, If I may ask for your advice and hopefully directions on how to proceed...

I have this English watch which I understand is called a false fusee. You'll recognise the type of course from the pics below.

It won't run. The spring is fully wound up. The balance swings with gusto when I give it a nudge and then after a number of swings it just comes to a stop. When I apply the end of the tweezers to the pallet lever under the plate it 'clicks' smartly from one side to the other and the escape wheel moves appropriately.
The watch movement is apparently clean and shining bright and I am fairly confident that there isn't a problem with dirt in the movement.

My questions:
What is the method to wind down the mainspring, if I want to dismantle the movement?
If I do decide to have a shot at this, then can you suggest what I should be looking for?

Finally, as I am going to Switzerland next weekend for Christmas, I do have the option of taking it with me and giving it to a repair shop there. This might be the way to go, but these Swiss repair guys count in Euros and seem to deal only in sums that look like they are budget line items in the EU annual budget...

Here's the watch for ID purposes

The externals

The side where the key goes in

Many thanks for showing us the watch Irwin, looks to be a very nice example!

I've a vague recollection of the term 'false fusee' but I don't give it any credence.
To be pedantic, a watch is either a fusee or it isn't - if there's no chain or fusee cone - it ain't a fusee, false or otherwise!!

If you swing the movement out, you'll more likely find a 'going barrel' arrangement than a barrel and fusee chain/cone set-up.

What you've Actually got there, is an English Lever watch - whether or not it has fusee or going barrel as motive power!
The heads of the adjustable banking pins are visible next to the balance, so you can tell at a glance there's a lever in there!.

The balance swings with gusto simply because you've applied some energy to the hairspring by nudging it, but the mainspring hasn't enough grunt to move the train and impulse the lever on its own!

It sounds as if the mainspring is a duffer - too weak or jammed with gooey oil etc.
As well as drying out, if left fully wound for any length of time, the springs in these watches 'set' and lose all strength.
The train pivots are also likely to be very dry and dirty regardless of how clean it looks.

Needs a mainspring plus full strip and service - Period!

To let down the mainspring, you need to get at the click arrangement, which is under the dial.
I can talk you through that, but unless you have some kit and a bit of experience with these, you could end up with a pile of bits that you can't get back together again.
But, if you're happy to have a go, I'm happy to help you with it!

These watches are quite easy to service, but you will need some gear to make good any worn pivot holes and pivots etc.
Ideally, you also need a movement holder which facilitates re-assembly of the movement - otherwise you will end up performing like a one armed paper hanger with not enough hands to hold all the bits in place whilst you get the plates back together!

I can point you in the right direction for tools etc, they're not expensive and will equip you to deal with other similar watches too.

Typical problems are much the same as any other watch:
Oval pivot holes in the plates - need bushing to repair.
Worn pivots from running dry - these need polishing to get grooves out etc, which in turn makes them smaller and requires the associated hole to be bushed (or re-jewelled).

Broken jewels are common - especially the top and bottom balance jewels plus worn end stones.

Check also, to see if the mainspring barrel is tilted when fully wound - if so, the pivot holes will be worn and need bushing - this is especially visible on fusee English Lever and Verge watches.

Sometimes you will also find rust spots or abnormal wear in the train pinions which have to be dealt with, or pivots worn beyond redemption and need re-pivoting!
The list goes on.

You're fortunate where you are though, as you don't seem to suffer the scourge of 'eBay dabbler's' damage to watch movements like we get here.
Your watch looks quite honest to me and likely to be a fairly straightforward job .......... but then messr's Sod and Murphy are always lurking somewhere

Email me if you need help with it.

Best regards

John.

Youre description of the balance swinging so freely scare me, if there is anything resembling a roller jewel pin that is supposed to operate the lever it may be gone now. I would take it to SW and have them look at it, as that may be a chore to replace.

No need to be scared David, it's quite normal, as the escape wheel and lever don't appear to be locked!

When Irwin swings the balance, the roller jewel will be impulsing the lever, not the lever impulsing the jewel, so all that's happening, is the balance moving through (probably bigger) vibrations artificially powered by the energy externally applied (by giving it a 'nudge') to the hairspring and unlocking the pallets on each arc.

The escape wheel is likely to be moving between each pallet 'unlocking' because there is probably sufficient power in the mainspring to move it.

I believe you may be under the impression the escape wheel isn't moving, and that the jewel should lock in the fork and stop, but if that did happen, it would more likely be a case of overbanking where the jewel strikes the side of the lever and doesn't enter the fork at all.

Even when a watch is fully wound down, the balance will still swing full vibrations in the same way if it was 'rocked' or (shock horror) flicked with a finger!
If the balance was swung hard enough, it would in fact rotate far enough to hit the wrong side of the lever on each arc - that would break it off!

Hope this clears things up a little.

Best regards

John

John, Thanks for your comprehensive explanation. I much appreciate it. I do have the most basic tools and can pretty much handle dismantling and reassembly of American style watches, but I can't do jeweling or pivots or anything of that sort.

I think I am going to have to take this one with me at the weekend and give it to a Swiss gnome. Whoever it is, I hope he's not going to plan on my financing a trip to the Bahamas for him...

Irwin,
It is a very nice watch, but I don't think there's enough value in it to warrant paying a repair shop to service it.
If it had some intrinsic value to you, or was a high quality movement made by a company such as Benson or Russel and their ilk, or had some other redeaming features, maybe I'd think differently.

My personal take FWIW, the cash you will spend having it serviced commercially, would be better spent equipping your workshop and putting this one aside to play with at a later date.

Buy a few 'scrappers' of a similar type when you're in those markets, and hone your skills on those!
There are plenty of old uncased movements knocking about these days too.

How about this for an option!
Take the watch to a few repair shops, and see if anyone will walk you through the repair whilst they do it - sort of mentoring!
Most will probably turn their nose up, but if you don't ask you don't get, and you will get lucky if you try enough.

The jewels in those watches are almost invariably set in brass chatons which are a very light push fit in bores in the plates rather than pressed into the plates themselves, they're usually retained by the endstone settings.

Consequently, any jewelling on these, is more a matter of finding a jewel the correct size for a pivot and making or modifying a mount to fit the watch.
It is very unlikely you will find a stock of commercially made jewels in settings of a size you need.

With these watches, you are into watchmaking, rather than parts swapping, so now would be a good time to get kitted up for doing them, rather than making Swiss watch houses wealthier than they are already.

Just my 2 penn'orth!

Enjoy Switzerland, hope you find some real gems over there.

Best regards

John