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Irish Pocket Watch "Click" to Login or Register 
Picture of Ken Knight
posted
I just acquired this key wind fuzee pocket watch for my collection. Needless to say, it needs some work.

The maker is John Croven - Doublin.

Can anyone give me some basic information. i.e. approx mfg. date, where I may find information on this maker, and more importantly, where one can purchase replacement fuzee chains.

Thanks for all your help.

Ken

 
Posts: 285 | Location: Springfield, Ohio in the USA | Registered: June 06, 2008
Picture of Ken Knight
posted
Here is the face. I am sure that hands are not hard to find.

The case, not pictured, is silver, so I need to identify the case markings.

 
Posts: 285 | Location: Springfield, Ohio in the USA | Registered: June 06, 2008
IHC Life Member
Site Moderator

Picture of Tom Brown
posted
In GH Baillie Watchmakers & Clockmakers of the World & Loomes 21st Cen Ed. I don't find a watchmaker by that name. That is not uncommon, there where so many watchmakers there are some that just haven't made into the books yet.

John or Gerald might come back with more info.

As for the chain, is it all there just broken? They can be repaired, if not you will need the measurements of the old chain & then see if anyone has one to sell.

Tom
 
Posts: 5107 | Location: New Mexico in the USA | Registered: January 27, 2007
IHC Life Member
Site Moderator

Picture of Tom Brown
posted
If you could post the hallmarks on the case, often you can get a better idea to the age of the watch based on the case marks.

Tom
 
Posts: 5107 | Location: New Mexico in the USA | Registered: January 27, 2007
Picture of Ken Knight
posted
Here are the hallmarks from the watch case. One is from the cover case and the other is from the watch case itself.

 
Posts: 285 | Location: Springfield, Ohio in the USA | Registered: June 06, 2008
Picture of Ken Knight
posted
This is the mark from the watch case.

 
Posts: 285 | Location: Springfield, Ohio in the USA | Registered: June 06, 2008
posted
Hi Ken

A very nice timepiece and a worth-while restoring project. In my imagination i can see the lights reflecting on those gilded rich engravings ! That's the real watchmaking part !
There are two major problems with those old watches: missing cases and demaged dials - both are O.K. with your watch.

Some first informations and thoughts:

The watch is British and was made circa 1800 !

The makers name might read Johm Grover (or John Crover), Dublin.

The Hallmarks say nothing (to me) - in fact they drive me crazy. I think they are 'pseudo-hallmarks' trying to imitate genuine british ones ?

Please show pictures of the cases and side-views of the movement. Is the balance cap steel? As Tom said try to fix the chain first.

Have fun
Gerald
 
Posts: 742 | Location: Wertheim in Germany | Registered: February 21, 2009
IHC Life Member
Site Moderator

Picture of Tom Brown
posted
Gerald

I had thought the same thing about the name & had tried to locate something with both spellings with no luck.

The hallmarks also bothered me, I couldn't figure them out either.

Tom
 
Posts: 5107 | Location: New Mexico in the USA | Registered: January 27, 2007
Picture of Ken Knight
posted
Here is the watch cased up.

 
Posts: 285 | Location: Springfield, Ohio in the USA | Registered: June 06, 2008
Picture of Ken Knight
posted
The movement cover.

 
Posts: 285 | Location: Springfield, Ohio in the USA | Registered: June 06, 2008
Picture of Ken Knight
posted
The watch case.

 
Posts: 285 | Location: Springfield, Ohio in the USA | Registered: June 06, 2008
Picture of Ken Knight
posted
The Watch Case Cover.

 
Posts: 285 | Location: Springfield, Ohio in the USA | Registered: June 06, 2008
Picture of Ken Knight
posted
Here is a profile of the watch.

 
Posts: 285 | Location: Springfield, Ohio in the USA | Registered: June 06, 2008
Picture of Ken Knight
posted
You are also right, the makers name is John Grover.

Also, if I don't think I have the skill to tackle this restoration, are there others that may be interested? If so, I may put it up for auction.
 
Posts: 285 | Location: Springfield, Ohio in the USA | Registered: June 06, 2008
posted
Beautiful watch Ken, thanks for posting it for us to see.

I can't find anything positive relating to the hallmarks either, and suspect they may be earlier Irish marks than current books illustrate - or an import from elsewhere which could be symbolised by the odd central marking, which is vaguely similar to the Dublin assay office import mark for Silver.
They could even be early marks of long defunct minor guild.

The shield on the right could be either a duty mark showing that tax has been paid to the crown, or a casemaker's mark.
Most heads face to the right though and can find no similar marks in any UK assay marks.
The only marks even close, are for Dublin 1840, the monarch's head is facing left, and the 'U' if it's the date mark is for 1840, but the shields and head shapes aren't quite there.

The large 'K' on the left could be a defunct assay office mark?

There are quite a few forums relating to hallmarks, it may be worth subbing to one and posting the marks there.

Re- the chain, they can be bought, but they will be from parted out movements, most likely English levers as there's more around.
Sadly, fusees, especially unnamed seem to be worth more as parts than the whole - t'was ever thus!

They can also be repaired ok, but a fiddly job!

The steel endstone cap is a nice touch not often seen, appears to have been bushed, but I think it probably once held a faceted diamond endstone.
The square pillars between the plates BTW, are called 'Egyption' pillars, which puts it a shade above round pillar varieties as regards desireability.

I'd certainly be interested in it, but I'd have to dump quite a few more of my Swiss watches first.

John.
 
Posts: 1282 | Location: Northern England, United Kingdom | Registered: January 07, 2006
posted
I have two books that cover Dublin and Irish minor guilds. They cover some very early years, and nothing looks like the marks shown above.
 
Posts: 767 | Location: Los Osos, California USA | Registered: December 12, 2002
Picture of Ken Knight
posted
To answer Geralds question, the balance cap is brass. I was hoping for gold, but no such luck.

 
Posts: 285 | Location: Springfield, Ohio in the USA | Registered: June 06, 2008
IHC Life Member
Picture of Richard M. Jones
posted
Is it possible the hallmarks are from the Kingdom of Hanover? I seem to recall some Dutch hallmarks or guild marks on cases made for the English market?


Deacon
 
Posts: 1004 | Location: Omaha, Nebraska in the USA | Registered: February 14, 2009
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