In the course of another thread, Lindell mentioned John Deuber moving to the Soviet Union after his operation was sold in the late 1920's. He mentioned 18 jeweled Russian watches and Deuber's continuation of them.

#1 - 18 jeweled pocketwatches are somewhat rare right?

#2 - Are Russian pocketwatches good watches? I'd like to learn more on Russian pocketwatches. Photos would be good too! Thanks fellas!!

Stephanie O'Neil
NAWCC Member 143979

Stephanie,

I think Mr Dueber was long gone when in 1928 the Hampden Watch Company was sold to the Soviet Interests known as Amtorg. I did not mean to imply he was still involved with the company at that point.

The only 18-jewel watches I'm familiar are Russian. If anyone knows of others it would be interesting to hear about them. There are some exceptionally high grade Russian Watches, but I don't have any of those. There are probably others looking in who know more about these than I do.

Below, a couple pictures. My only Russian Pocket Watch is a commemorative of victory in WWII and style as well as layout it is typical of lower priced Soviet Made Watches I have seen.

On the front this one is marked "Guardia CCCP" which I'm told translates as "Guardians of the Nation" then on the back, "Great War to end War" and "1941-1945". History records the Soviet Union was invaded June 27, 1941 and exactly four years later the Red Army took Berlin.

Front Cover of Soviet Made 18-jewel commemorative from 1994...

Thanks Lindell for your information. I enjoyed the pictures. It seems both watches are new, pocketwatch -1994 commemorative and wristwatch, an import from Russia. Does anyone have pictures of any of the antique Russians?

Lindell, I'm interested in viewing the movement of your commemorative pocketwatch!

Stephanie O'Neil
NAWCC Member 143979

First, I'd recommend getting a copy of James W. Gibbs' book, From Springfield to Moscow: The Complete Dueber-Hampden SAtory. It contains lots of interesting information.
Quite a number of companies made (or make) 18 jewel watches, including Patek, Philippe & Co., Vasheron & Constantin and Gruen. Most high grade Swiss movements didn't jewel the lower center wheel on even their best watches, as there is almost no wear on that position. Some U.S. firms, especially Elgin, made some 20 jewel RR grade watches the same way. They changed them over to 21 jewels after a short period of time. American watchmakers, possibly getting caught up in the marketing "jewel wars" in the 1890s, pushed for the additional jewel as being necessary for a 'fully jewelled' watch, so the American manufacturers and some of the Swiss makers as well, starting adding the extra jewel. One exception was Patek, who continues to make 18 (and 20) jewel movements today.
My understanding is that the "Moscow Watch Factory #1", which housed the Hampden machinery, was demolished in the early 1970s. The fate of the old machinery (and the American records, if they were even sent to the USSR at the time of the sale) is unknown.

Ed Ueberall
NAWCC #49688
IHC #34
http://members.aol.com/stdwatch/

Get a copy of the book Russian Wristwatches by Juri Levenberg. It covers wrist, pocket and chronometers. No antiques thought.

Thanks Jerry for info on the book. I didn't want to rush out and buy a book on Russian pocketwatches, wristwatches just yet. Just wanted to get a little info on Russian watches through a thread, that's all. Did the Russians produce pocketwatches back in the 1800's? Curious.

Stephanie O'Neil
NAWCC Member 143979

Thanks a million Ed, you always put things in focus!

I had no idea how many high grade 18-jewel watches there are. Barely noon and I've learned something important already today! Looks like that's a book I'll be buying this week as the Hampden story is a fascinating one. The late Jim Hernick's Hampden book is of course another great resource.

Wouldn't it be interesting to find those Hampden records. So much of our horological history has been lost, you just know those records were probably destroyed as well.

Jerry, "So many books, so little time" and there is so much yet to learn.

Stephanie, I have the impression the Hampden move to Russia may have been their real beginnings.

For Stephanie, here's the Russian 18-jewel Pocket Watch Movement...

Both Hamilton and Waltham produced 18-jewel wrist watches. Hamilton added one jewel to the 747 movement when a sweep second hand was used and Waltham apparently did the same; I have a Waltham from the early 1940's with sweep second hand and 18-jewels.

I bought a watch like Lindell's in Odessa, Russia.
They were being sold in the "dollar store". That is a store closed to Russian citizens. The watch cost a whopping $11. The movement is used in a whole slew of different cases and with a great variety of dials. The same movement is used for open face and hunting cases, hence the seconds bit at nine o'clock. There is a decent book available on Russian watches.