I'm going to kick this topic off with a photo of the dial from the first Chatelaine watch posted in my other topic for those watches.

These dials really are an incredible work of art, not just in their creation by the fusing of finely powdered glass to a copper disc, but also in the artwork which was carried out during the initial and final firing stages.

All of the decoration was hand applied, although how the cabouchons were actually cut to shape anyway back then I've no idea.

Practically all of the dial examples I have are from watches with Swiss movements.

Even though I've a lot of these dials which are broken and unuseable, I can't bear to throw them away.
One day I'll turn them into a dial 'pastiche' by joining them up where I'll cut the busted bits out.

If anyone has any similar dials, how about posting a close up of it here?

Best regards

John

Great looking dial John, I would post some but I do not own anything like that, wish I did.

Tom

Hey John, I don't have any exactly like yours but here is the best I can do at the moment....This is on a 17j, 18size BW Raymond, ca 1889....

Regards,
Jerry

#2, without bezel....

Hey, that's nice Jerry, you just have to love that craftsmanship.
Those Continental hands complement it beautifully.

Just think of the work that went into that dial.

I'm always awed by the quality of this sort of work, and even more so when you think of the era they were made and the lack of any modern gizmo's that we enjoy today.

Tom, whatever you got, post 'em up, they're all works of art in their own way.

Those dial makers are real unsung heroes in my book, and get very little mention on any forum that I've visited, yet without a dial, a watch looks like a piece of junk!

John

This dial is in a similar style Jerry, except Roman numerals.

Interestingly, the numerals follow around the dial same as yours too, whereas very often they're set in a 'Tumbling Numbers' style, where the numerals rollover from 4 up to 8 when they roll back again at 9 the 'right way up'.

John

Close up of the detail

John

I agree John, the dial makers get very little attention in the way of accolades, it is always the movement maker and of course that is as it should be....however, there is a lot of work that goes into making a dial face, especially one like these that are posted, or at least I would think so anyway with all the hand labor that appears to be required....

The first thing one looks at is the dial, then the name on the dial, then the case & then the movement....

These are nice to look at anyway and are generally the ones that are displayed for folks to look at....

Hopefully we can get others to post some of their watch's with fancy dials.... I like all types....

Thanks, John for starting this string....

Regards,
Jerry

Here is my P.S. Bartlett 15 jewel, model 1883. I was told by a friend that dial makers/decorators had shortened life spans and/or more illness due to chemical exposure in their line of work. Still, they created beautiful works of art!

Beautiful example Mary Ann, thanks for posting the pic's.

The types of chemicals that craftspeople were exposed to - even well into the 1900's, was quite horrific.

I'm not 'au fait' with the types of chemicals dial makers were exposed to, but certainly messing with molten glass and kilns would have been a very dangerous occupation anyway.

Gilders who plated watch parts were exposed to Mercury vapours and cyanide etc, and I dare say many other poisons were used in watch manufacture.

This extended into other occupations too, and remember being quite amused during a tour of a local stately home, when told that the C19th household employed a 'wig cleaner' (to kill the 'nits' etc), and even had his own special 'cleaning room'.
The amusement soon subsided when it was disclosed that the average age of survival in that occupation was the late 20's.
The wigs were cleaned with Arsenic powder!

I dare say it eventually poisoned the employer that wore the wigs too, so some 'poetic justice' there maybe!

John.

Oh yeah, that plating business is terrible on the lungs especially....I remember, during the 60's & 70's when I was in the metal fabrication business, we had a lot of anodizing and cadmium plating done for the military, I could hardly stand to go into our vendors place because of the stench....it really hurt the lungs to breath but all their employees didn't have any trouble at all....I guess they were used to it....

It is bad stuff....

Regards,
Jerry

Here is dial on my South Bend Grade 280.

Here is the dial on my South Bend 281

I have one up for auction ending tonight.....(no bids yet)....hint hint,.....
https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3426021842/m/7571005233
6 size Seth Thomas with no hairlines or chips and comes with the top plate and setting lever!
Samuel

Jerry, When I bought my plating outfit, and discussed the cyanide process with them, I naturally expressed great concerns about the dangers of using the stuff.
The Rep on the phone just said "Oh, it's ok, we handle the stuff all the time, just don't bite yer nails or eat any sandwiches until you wash your hands" ....

The real danger with that stuff, is the fumes fall to floor level and rise, displacing the oxygen.
It also kills the sense of smell, by which time if it's got to your senses that far, it's already fatal.
The only 'cure' as such if the effects are caught in time, is an intake of pure oxygen which must be administered immediately.
At least that's the info I got.
Personally I'd be terrified of using it!

Ernie, Gorgeous dials, and especially the 280, fantastic detail!
How Did they do that? Must have been some kind of transfer technique perhaps?

I also like how the Continental complement these dials, and quite surprised how many find their way onto American watches.
All the watches I have with those hands are Swiss.

Samuel, that's a nice dial too, and quite surprised no one's had a dabble there yet.

John

Here are my Elgins with decorative dials. Clockwise from the top left, Grades 312, 345,301, 345, 386, and 189. 4 of the 6 are hunters. 3 of the 6 are in 14k cases; the other three are in gold filled cases. All the cases are decorated, half with ornate multi-color adornments.

The only other watches I have with decorated enamel dials are a few Walthams and a few Swiss watches. Here are the Walthams, clockwise from the left: (1) 1888 Riverside Maximus in fairly plain open faced 14k case, (2)Chronometro Victoria 18k hunter case decorated with fancy enamel initials and a crescent moon and star in diamonds, (3) 1888 American Watch Co in an engine turned gold-filled hunter case.

My Swiss watches with decorated enamel dials might not really count. On the left is a Touchon in an 18k green enameled open face case. The dial only qualifies an a decorative enamel dial because the center is enameled to match the case. On the right is an H. Grandjean in an 18k hunter case. It has a a very florid dial, regrettably a bit tarnished (if that is the right word). I think it is enameled, but I really don't know how it was made.

Beautiful dials, Ethan and Ernie! I think my favorite is Ethan's 1888 Waltham. You don't see red very often.

Ethan, what can I say but WOW ............
Those dials are Absolutely Exquisite!

I especially like the Riverside Maximus dial, Glorious!
The Touchon certainly qualifies, what a superb example of the enamellers craft! Understated elegance!

The Grandjean is a beauty, and will almost certainly be a solid silver dial.
I'm not entirely certain how they were made, but those I've looked at closely or restored, appear to have been too uniform to have been hand engraved, so I'd guess they were blanks stamped from a master, then had all the embellishments added.

All the filligree work on similar dials I've played with are separate mouldings, probably cast, plated and then pinned to the dial, but sometimes soldered - especially those on the outer chapter.

The numerals and nameplate were probably transfers or hand painted through a stencil somehow.
Where these dials use raised gilt numerals, they've usually been pinned individually to the dial base.
Very often, you'll find a name and/or a hallmark of some description on the back!

Fabulous! Keep them coming folks!

John

John has said it all.... really cool, ornate, watches & dials.... Thank you Ethan for showing them to us....Gives us all something to shoot for....

Regards,
Jerry

Here are four ornate dials. Three are Elgins. I guess they did a lot of this sort of thing.