Need help identifying French pocketwatch. Case is gold, but I don't know what percentage and is marked in 5 places and on the movement is a rat. The 1850's French artists used different symbols to mark their work. The rat is of Perpignan, France. That much I do know.The case is engine turned huntercase, measuring 30.09 mm outside diameter by 6.9 mm thick. Cuvette is marked A ?? Damiens, Brevet. Dial is screw to the plate at the 3 & 9. Any help will be greatly appreciated, Neal E Nicely

The cuvette...

...And the movement.

Hi Neal, do you wind and set the watch by pressing your finger against one of those circles and turning, if you do that is really neat !

Francesco

Francesco, yes, you wind with the lower one and set the time mith the center, Neal Nicely

Hi Neal!

First of all 'Welcome to the IHC 185'

You are showing us a very nice european pocket watch.

Could you try to take a picture of the 'rat' mark for identificaation or furure reference?

The watch is a small size typical swiss/french bar style with a cylinder escapement. Unfortunely this type of movement was so common and the smaller sizes wer produced during a very long time. First date possible should be 1850 and the latest have been used in the early wrist-watch days. The only chance to find out who made this would be the mark (if known) and the brevet (patent).
The watch has 8 - 10 jewels which is fully jeweled for a cylinder movement. What is outstanding on this watch is the try to make the setting and winding 'keyless'.
What I like is the fact that this watch is in unaltered condition and for some reason survived the 'gold rushes' of past times.

Regards
Gerald

I can't take a picture of the mark, but I can send you about 2 1/2 pages of different marks used by the French in the 1850's.I bought the watch from a jewelry store locally. It was in the owners family and his parents owned a jewelry store in New Jersey in the early 1900's.I beat a scrapper from buying it! Neal

The Brevet (patent) was probably for the "keyless" winding. Neal Nicely

Hi Neal

email send

About the patent I had the same thoughts. Problem is: if there is no pat. number it is almost impossible to find one of those early patents and the keyword search (in french and how was this thing called and when ?) often brings no results.

Even without knowing exactly what it is, it was well done to save this one from the scrape.!
One of a thousand of those once common watches shows some variations like this.

Regards
Gerald

Hi Neal

I got your mail. Thanks. To avoid any spam you may cancel your email adress given in your previous post( edit button below the post).

The pages you sent give just the verbal description of a rat as a region mark which is a rather weak trace. So no help at this moment. Keep the watch, try to get a picture.

Gerald; Thank-you for your input.I bought a book that is titled: history of L'Orfeverie-Joaillerie, community brotherhood of jewelymakers and jewelry marks of France that I believe has the complete pages of the marks and towns. I won't know until it arrives. Regards, Neal

Case is 18 kt gold and has the eagle mark in France for 18 kt gold, Neal