Ball-Illinois and Ball-Waltham 12-Size Serial Number Specifics

October 17, 2007, 07:12

Gordon Collingwood

Hi Folks

Is there a more comprehensive list of Ball serial numbers for Ball-Hamiltons, Ball-Walthams, Ball-Illinois etc, particularly the 12-size than that available in Shugart?

I am particularly interested in the year of manufacture and any other info on 12s Ball-Illinois s/n B400130. It is an Art Deco style, so I presume it was made in the 1920s.

Gordon

November 09, 2007, 12:00

Lindell V. Riddle

Putting all those Ball numbers together in one place is a good idea. What makes it complicated is the fact Ball out-sourced his orders to many different companies and so it becomes more than a little confusing. We could probably separate the manufacturers into topics and show illustrations, just a matter of finding the time.

To your specific question on the 12-size Ball-Illinois watches...

On page 160 of his Illinois Encyclopedia the late Bill Meggers listed those watches as you see in the scan below this message. His numbers begin at B401001 which may be a simple typographical error since your B400130 raises the probability of B400001 being the likely beginning point.

That "typographical error" likelihood is further reinforced by the fact in the very same "Illinois Encyclopedia" listing under paragraph (4) he refers to B400001 as the beginning number.

Checking the 1993 issued "American Pocket Watches" on page 51 we find the Ball-Illinois 12-size numbering range listed as being B400001-B408000 which would seem to again reinforce the B401001 number as being an error in typing. I'll tell you, I make mistakes like that every day!

All that being said, your number B400130 would be considered as 1927 production.

Bill Meggers' reference in the Illinois Encyclopedia...

November 14, 2007, 13:11

Keith Klimkowicz

Hi

Is this a Waltham 12s Commercial Standard, serial number B247478?

What year was it produced?

November 14, 2007, 13:15

Keith Klimkowicz

Here is the Dial

November 14, 2007, 13:58

Lindell V. Riddle

Keith,

You've found a rare item, we seldom see 12-size Ball-Walthams. According to the records there was a first run of these, only a thousand numbers blocked from B247201 through B248200 in 1910 production. Yours fits very neatly into that range. Listings indicate 12-size pendant-set which would have been in keeping with the times.

Then we find that run was followed with another 1,000 run of 12-size Ball-Walthams the following year 1911 and that run is shown as being B253701-B254700 inclusive. Source: "American Pocket Watches" 1993 Heart of America Press.

The striking similarity with the larger 16-size Ball-Waltham is apparent when we put them side-by side. But among the more obvious differences is the shape of the train bridge particularly around the balance wheel and the 12-size having larger relative dished-out center areas on both the ratchet and crown wheels.

On the left your 12-size compared to a 16-size Ball-Waltham...

November 14, 2007, 15:45

Keith Klimkowicz

Thanks Lin

This is the type of information that I was looking for. So the watch is what I thought a 12 size Ball-Waltham from 1910.

The picture that you merged which shows my watch on the left and a 16 size on the right is a big help. I can see the differences that you touch on. There are several other differences after studying the picture. This is the reason that I post my question here, because I can count on a timely and educational answer.

I appreciate you taking the time to do this comparison and for the information.

Thanks again.