I've heard of 18s Seth Thomas Ball watches called"Railway Queen".Has anyone actually seen one of these?They must be one of the rarest of Ball watches.I searched this topic, and nobody has asked about them before.Thank you,...Ted Brown.

Ted

I have never heard of an 18 size, there was the 0 size Ball by Waltham Queen. Not that I am any where close to knowing much about Ball watches.

Tom

Bulletin 234 p17 discusses Dueber winning the right to the Railway designation and it being a problem for the Railway Queen designation used on Ball Seth Thomas watches. Price guide shows a ST Ball watch 18sz as a 4 star watch. I have never seen one, vaguely recollect some green board discussion about a "prototype", EA 131 p 36 of the large size American Pocket Watches Serial number and Grade Book Edited by Ehrhardt about 1993 has a drawing of a movement and under the Ball Seth Thomas section p46 it has the comment "one seen". There is a picture of the movement on p 94 of Ehrhardt's 1979 American Pocket Watch Price Indicator with the comment "rare".

Either they didn't make many or perhaps they were pulled after the trademark dispute.

no question about its rareness tho! As far as the rarest goes the Aurora Ball might be right there with it.

Only one Hamilton Ball 939 and one hamilton Ball 937 has surfaced so far also!

While not in the same class as the above, Railroad Watch Co 16 and 17 J are pretty scarce.

Hamilton Ball 938 only have 7 known and There are only 33 known Hampden Ball's that have surfaced.

Hamilton Ball 936 has only 10 known to surface and there are only 20 known Howard Ball's surviving.


Always learning! Fun hobby.

happy hunting,

Now I know I learned something today, thanks Ted & Bill, I never knew such a watch existed, now to find 6 or 7 of them!

Correct me if I am wrong Bill, I think this is Hampden's ad telling how they won the suit. This is from 1901 The Railroad Trainman.

Hopefully it is readable after dropping the quality.

Lindell & Bill

Just so I understand correctly, one page 74 of the gold book "American Pocket Watches Beginning to End" by Meggers & Ehrhardt, drawing EA 131. It shows a drawing of a Ball by Seth Thomas 18s marked Railway Queen Cleveland Ohio. So that is incorrect, no such watch exists?

Tom

Tom,

BLF Journal Jan 01 has a variation on the info/ad you posted. Apparantly Ball ran these in all the journals for a few months each.

Lindell,

I have never seen a pic of the dial on that ea 131 Seth thomas, have you?

happy hunting,

Lindell,

That picture in the 79 price indicator is pretty convincing proof that the movement exists. Under the picture there is a notation of G.E.T. which means to me that either Col Townsend owned the watch or took the picture.

As to the Ball Howards, I have nothing but envy of your collection! They were beyond my price range even years ago! I have a very small collection of less than 20 watches but concentrated on what I thought were the overlooked humble "rare" affordable (at the time) watches.

20 years ago, I probably had a few hundred watches but once I got the 938 Ball and started learning about the pre 1900 18sz Ball Hampdens and Hamilton's I was able to build a focused collection at a reasonable price.

Another way of looking at my collection is that I have a few tons of clocks and only a few pounds of watches

happy hunting,

I don't have the 1979 guide you mention so I can't check out the photo.

Looking through the books I have & on page 60 of the Ehrhardt & Meggers Railroad Watch ID & Price Guide they have the following listed;

Ball by Seth Thomas Clock Co.
Railway Queen - Cleveland, Ohio - Adjusted to Temperature & Positions
ca. 1892 DS-GE-RRT-RR-Dial: Webb C. Ball Cleveland in Old English
18S-17J-ON3L-AP-RRG "Spl" EA 131 & 810 one seen

Railway Queen - Adjusted To Temperature & Positions
DS-GE-ART-RR-Dial: Railway Queen
18S-17J-ON3L-AP-RRG "Spl" EA 131 & 810

Tom

Also wanted to say Ted, I didn't mean to hijack your question!

Tom

Tom and Ted,

Given the approx production date in the gold book of 1892 and the Dueber lawsuit concluding in 1901,
the theory that these were discontinued due to the suit doesn't hold water unless the production date estimate is wrong.

I am inclined to think the production date estimate is wrong and that this is a later watch possibly using older ST inventory as Ball apparantly did with Hampden. We can date the Hampdens due to existing ads that were run, but not so with the Seth Thomas.

happy hunting.

Wow, I stirred up a hornet's nest! And Tom, you didn't steal my question, I enjoy it when you guys join in. We're all learning. I saw the movement listed in the '79 indicator, maybe it's not a hoax since it came from Mr. Ehrhardt. In his Beginning to End book, they also list a full-plate 5th model Seth Thomas Ball, they gave an est. value at that time of 6500-9000 dollars! And Lindell, that Queen you show, man what a nice watch! That's one to be proud of. I'm in awe.... Hey, I'd be happy with a Waltham Ball! I'm still kicking myself for never getting a Ball watch, I remember when they were cheap to buy, now I couldn't touch one with a 10' pole....Thanks for another great education....Ted.