Hi Guys and Gals,

Just going through my library for the umpteenth time and I noticed a difference in The EA 134 drawing by Ehrhardt and Meggers ( that can be found on page 37 of my dogeared copy of American Pocket Watches the 8 1/2x 11 version or on page 74 of the smaller brownish gold ID and price guide beginning to end version ) and the Col Townsend Plate 82 (P 16 American Railroad Watches)

They are both movement line drawings of Hampden Ball # 866973 which is the last reported Hampden Ball known to me. My full list can be seen at

williamkapp.tripod.com/id29.htm


Col Townsends drawing has John C Dueber engraved on the movement straight across from the balance bridge. Both drawings have Ball's Standard Superior Grade , Adjusted and Hampden Watch Co engraved on the barrel bridge. the serial number 866974 is located in the same place on both line drawings .

Another interesting Townsend plate is #170 (p 42 RRWatch) a fancy Moorehouse style dial that Townsend annotates as "From J.C. Deubers personal Watch no 1201174. Now my copy is dogeared and I can't be sure of the serial number. That number would correspond to a 23J Special Railway.

So my questions after this long winded set up are:

Has anyone seen 866974? Which line drawing is correct?

Anyone got a better copy of RRWatch by Townsend and verify that number? It would be a new addition to my list, but we don't know for sure how the movement is marked.

If nothing else, anyone have a clue why Townsend thought Dueber carried a watch with a Ball Dial? Could it be the famous thrifty Dueber that Gibbs describes in his "From Springfield to Moscow" just had some leftover dials?

I know two early serial numbers found on my list above are Ball Dials on Hampden movements that are not marked Ball.

At least all of this seems to indicate that the dials were manufactured or ordered by Hampden not Ball. Looking at the 1890 Ad with the Hampden Dial on the Ball Movement, I had thought that perhaps Ball ordered the dials.

Its easy to obsess in pursuit of our hobby and my apologies again for being so long winded.

Happy hunting,

Bill Kapp

Bill

Yes, the number of the movement of J C Dueber's personal watch is 1201174, as you say.

When I asked him about it in 1981, George Townsend wrote to me: "The dial that I show in my RR from J C Dueber watch is on a Hampden 23 Jewel 18 size grade Special Railway just like plate 86 on page 18, except 23 jewels. I have been able to trace a few watches in my collection. This was one. Yes, I have a few that could tell a story, if they could only talk! Many I have tried to trace but no luck. But I keep trying."

Those were the words of one of the greatest exponents of our hobby.

John Scott

John,

Fascinating! Thanks for the confirmation. That makes at least 3 watches with dials that don't match the movement markings.

One could imagine that Dueber ordered the dials in batches and had some leftover inventory. He had a reputation for hating waste. It does seem strange that he would carry this watch after Ball and he no longer had a business arrangement. Perhaps the relationship was not as acrimonious as most would imagine.

Do you have any Ball Hampdens in your personal collection?

Happy hunting,

Bill Kapp