My latest Ball watch purchase

July 05, 2010, 17:14

Bill Manders

Hi everyone.
I just found this in a pawn shop while on holidays. It appears to be a 992B official RR std., with a Cdn Dial in a Derby case. Dial and movement look real good, case Oh Well!! Upon looking in the Complete Guide the only 16s 21J 992B marked movement adj as this one is listed a quite rare, is this true ? or am I just misreading the book ? Any info regarding this model would be much appreciated, has it got the elinvar spring etc.
Thanks in advance,
Bill

July 05, 2010, 17:15

Bill Manders

mvmt

July 05, 2010, 17:15

Bill Manders

mvmt2

July 05, 2010, 17:37

Mike LaForest

Bill,
Ahhh..... whadju say the name of that pawn shop is in BC?

The 992B Ball Hamilton is quite rare. Your 999B is less so, but still puts up a respectable 750-100-1500 in the newest fat book.

Congratulations on a rare find!
M.

July 05, 2010, 19:11

Edward L. Parsons, Jr.

Very nice Bill. I recently got a Canadian 992B in the IHC185 mart, with a 24-hr melamine dial and a Sturdy case.

Some day I'd like to get a 999B like this to go with it.

July 05, 2010, 19:38

Bill Manders

Thanks for the kind comments, Mike and Ed.
I can't find anything on the serial number I believe it is 1B722, if that sounds right. I do not know when it would have been made, and does it have the Elinvar.
Bill

July 05, 2010, 19:55

Jerry King

Bill, This is somewhat of a quandry to my small mind....

The watch pictured is a 999B and has s/n 1B722 as you wrote, here's my quandry; On page 21 of the Hamilton s/n guide it lists this s/n range to be a 999 with a production date of 1944. I do not know the relationship of the Hamiton s/n's to that of the Hamilton watches used by Ball or even if there is a relationship....

Maybe Lindell will come along and straighten all this out for us....

You did make a great find, however....Congratulations...!

Oh, BTW, it does look to me like the hairspring is Elinvar....

Regards,

Jerry

July 05, 2010, 20:24

Walter Colk

Great find Bill, I am envious and just think it only took you 22 pawn shops to find it!
Green with jealousy,

Walter

July 05, 2010, 22:00

Lindell V. Riddle

I think we need to clear up a couple misunderstandings.

The watch Bill began this topic with is number 1B722 which is a 21-Jewel Ball 999B (NOT 992B) from 1944 production at Hamilton. This movement number is shown on the third line of the second column on numbered page 21 of the John F. Gelson Hamilton Listings. Careful inspection of the second line shows 999B and the 999 designation beginning on lines 3 and continuing through line 11 assumes a carry-over of the "B" suffix.

Bill's good looking 999B has all the appropriate markings and damaskeening exactly as they should be, it has a polished gold center wheel and gold center, 3rd and 4th wheel jewel settings as expected. The 24-hour dial is porcelain-enamel, the hands look right, we can presume the case is original as well. Very nice example!

And then we get to "Ball 992B" sightings. One presumed to be genuine is shown below this posting in an image appearing on page 76 of the 1980 Ehrhardt "Price Indicator" book. It appears to be number 1B13315 in and below the fuzzy black and white photograph. Whether this one is a genuine movement marking caused by an unintended factory error, which is what it appears to be, or someone's prank is open to question. But I can tell you this, whenever we have tried to chase down a reported "Ball 992B" sighting it can usually be attributed to "high-hopes" based upon Shugart's "Complete Guide to Watches" page 153 of the 2010 Edition entry for a "Ball 992B" or someone misunderstood a "narrow-damaskeened" late 999B or some other form of mistake. If there really were other genuine, marked as "Ball 992B" movements mistakenly marked during production you can make a sure bet that more than just the one shown in that 1980 Ehrhardt "Price Indicator" would have surfaced by now. (NOTE: If anyone offers to sell you one, be very careful, it is likely fraudulent.

As of today no other mistakenly factory-marked "Ball 992B" has been confirmed, of course that could suddenly change tomorrow but I'm not holding my breath. Over the years there have been some rather laughable fake movements assembled by those looking to cash-in by foolling the unsuspecting but only the example Ehrhardt shared with us some thirty years ago appears to hold any real hope of authenticity. But I would submit that unintentional marking is one of those bleary-eyed "Monday morning mistakes" that do occasionally occur in factories. A final comment, several years ago I tried to find the Ehrhardt "Price Indicator" example, number 1B13315 but by then the owner was deceased and I could not locate any surviving family members or any other information but the watch is likely out there somewhere. Such is the fascination of this hobby.

One thing is certain, there was never any intention to produce any Ball watches with "992B" markings.

Both companies carefully guarded their Trade-Marks but mistakes do happen.

Hope this is of help,

Lindell

Factory error "Ball 992B" sighted 30 years ago...

July 05, 2010, 22:29

Bill Manders

What great info all, and the 992B was a typo on my part, sorry for the confusion.
Walter, I bet you are green with envy, tell you what if I find another in my searching, I'll buy it and you will be the first to know when I return to PG.
Mike, actually as stated I am on holidays and am quite a bit further east than BC, but it matters not, still looking for more great buys.
Thanks again all, and the great knowledge you all have.
Bill

July 06, 2010, 00:36

Mike LaForest

Bill,
Sounds like you are "leading the life" right now.

Hope to hear from you again soon here with another super find.
M.

July 06, 2010, 15:36

Jerry King

The MASTER has spoken....as I hoped he would....Thanks Lindell for your insightful post, as usual you do clear up the muddy water...

I was not sure of the relationship between the Ball-Hamilton serial numbers....

Thanks, again....

Regards,

Jerry

July 07, 2010, 12:11

Larry Buchan

A great find Bill, one never knows what looking around in a pawn shop will bring up. Congratulations on your lucky find.

Larry

July 11, 2010, 20:39

Bill Manders

Again Thanks for all the kind words and information regarding this watch. I do have a further question about it tho. How long should it run on a full wind, the reason I ask is that it has run for about 55 hrs on a full wind, is this normal? and has lost no more than 3 seconds in that time ?
Thanks for any input.
Bill

July 11, 2010, 22:14

Samie L. Smith

Yes that,s about what it should run ,running that long and keeping time means it,s in good condition..The mainspring in these is auctuly longer than a 60 hour bunn ,29 inches long in your ball same as the 992b the 60 hour bunn mainspring is 27 inches long but thiner..The gear ratio Barrel too center wheel is also different on the bunn is how they get the 60 hour run time some of the 60 hour bunn,s will run 63-64 hours.

Nice watch looks too be in great condition.

July 12, 2010, 07:11

Bill Manders

Hi Samie,
I was hoping that it was right, and should be running that length of time, but was unsure and thought I would ask. Appreciate the info.
Thanks,
Bill

January 18, 2011, 00:14

Robert Loe

Sometimes I feel like a beginner, even though I have been collecting watches for about 10 years.

I have Hamilton 992B #C77175. My 992B movement plate layout looks just like the Ball-Hamilton 999B.

Could somebody tell me the differences other than the engraving and damaskeening, between the two models?

January 18, 2011, 16:32

Buster Beck

The mechanical parts are the same on 992B and 999B movements, only the markings are different.

regards,
bb