Can anyone give me more information on this Fussee I have recently found, I couldn’t resist, (the picture enclosed is of another movement but identical). It is a large approximately S20 (US Equiv) Fussee, KWKS Stamped Liverpool, and Rob-T-Perry
With as you can see a excess?, or a higher grade movement? clear Liverpool windows (the white jewels are they sapphires or corundums). My watch is cased in a silveroid type triple hinged case stamped MB, serial numbers all match (14000s) and I nearly forgot a hand cut diamond end stone. Face attractive white (perfect condition) roman numerals my guess is 1840s

Chris,

The dating is correct..I have an almost identical Perry.. The balance cock shape indicates it most likly has a Massey type III roller as part of the escapment..Higher grade for sure, but I doubt that the jeweling is sapphires.. Mainspring click on the barrel bridge is a nice feature, especially when servicing.. Silveroid case is most likly not original, as it postdates the movemnt, by a number of years...The original silver or gold cased was scraped during one of the Gold, or Silver "rushes"..Perry made some very nice watches in my opinion...does this have the brass dust cap..? One last thing, and you are not alone here, fussee is correctly spelled fusee...You wouldn't believe how I've see this 5 letter word spelled..

Thanks John,

Yes indeed a great looking watch with a few interesting deviations, mine still has the original gilt dust cap, and the case is original I would guess on account of having the same serial numbers for movement and case. I named it silveroid for want of a better description it is not hallmarked, and has that feel of a low grade silver mix, a substantial case, with a mirror like finish,. Its running well currently plates need a little clean to restore to almost new cond, if I get hold of a camera will post a few pictures. Where are these made? Are they the Swiss made stamped and exported?

These earlier Liverpool watches were made in Prescott and Liverpool. The jewels are normally chrysolite, which is essentially a pale colored quartz with a bit of magnesium and iron.

Chris,

If the case has the same number as the movement it very well may be original. Many of these English watches were cased here as it was less expensive to import movements than whole watches..something to do with duty..Any marks on the inside of the covers, besides the serial number???

I can't find a Perry working in Liverpool in any of my books. The use of a silver index is unusual for a Liverpool watch. Except for the index, this watch with the large jewels and the click on the top plate looks like what is known as a Liverpool runner. It is hard to pin down a date without a hallmarked case or a known maker.

Hi,
I have looked all over all I can find is the serial No in a couple of places and a deep cast letters "MB" in the rear cover.

I agree completely with John as far as the case goes Silveroide and European watches from the 1840's just do not mix....Silveroid on a whole was from a later date...i read the history behind it at one time but can not recall the exact dates 1870's 80's?... just that the composition did not include silver....I think they were mostly nickle.

Steve,
Do you have anyway to identify the makers stamp in this silver metal case, this would resolve the riddle a bit more?. (a heavy inset cast MB), and we have been unable to pin down the watchmaker, Robert Perry. I have seen a few of these watches since but unable to find out much more.

Chris,

If you could show a picture of the MB it would help. The only case maker I know of with that mark, is Margot Bros. They made very nice gold and silver cases..

I finally got hold of a camera,
hope these help.

2

3

4

5

6

Chris,

Very nice watch. I am going to stick my neck out here, but I think this is an original case, one that was made specificly for the movement. There are some contridictions to its make up..first as a rule English open face cases are hinged on the left as is this one. The movement hinge at the top, as shown, is only seen on English cases. The movement fit appears to to good to just be refit, notice especially the release lever and the stop work lever reliefs.. The puzzel is no hallmarks.. I believe the case was made by an English case maker that moved to the US ??? I have 3 or 4 of these type of cases on English movements, and all appear original with matching serial numbers..and all appear to be of English design..But without hallmarks. I would think that this is also a silver case.. Hope that helps..

Thanks for your replies, I have sent to your e-mail the higher res picture of the case so you can zoom in, and maybe identify to maker etc. I have been asking friends in Europe, who have been unable to find any record of a UK watchmaker Perry, I wish I could get better pictures as it look far better than shown, the rear of the case is mirror like. in fact this watch is in incredible condition all hinges & bows stiff showing little no wear.
Not having stripped this watch I am at a bit of a loss as to the function of the lever protruding by the numeral 5, what is it for? It is large about S20 and must be about 6oz.

Chris, the lever is a stop work lever. It will stop the watch by moving a small wire. this wire will either stop the escape wheel or will stop the lever from moving..To syncrinize time with the town Tower clock..No dialing time service then.. Here is a pic of an M.I. Tobias lever fusee from the 1820 or 30's, original to the case, with makers marks..Case is "heavy" also....

Thanks, I hadn’t seen that before, even though I have a few early English watches (1800s) are these an indication of a particular time period? It looked as if it should move, but was hesitant to try until I knew further with it being a little stiff. Hope to picture I sent was ok to see the MB stamp .

I have just dug this watch out to have a look at and noticed that the escapement is interesting, I hope it show in the pictures, it appear to be pointed angled teeth on the escape wheel, is this a “Massey escapement” and if so is that a commons style in-keeping with this watch?, date?,

p2

Massey Type 3?

Thought I might aswell take it apart and have a look, good to see Liverpool windows on both plates,

p5

If I understand Massey escapements, it is not the lever or escape wheel that determines if a watch is a Massey type. We have to see what is on the balance staff ie: the roller jewels and how they are attached. I can't tell that from your pictures. Am I wrong?

That's where I am confused, I found this picture on the web, my roller table has a single large round jewel and a flat for the guard, but the escape wheel and pallet are as per picture. I read that watchmakers would upgrade the roller tables?.
Hav'nt got a clue who the Dave Penny is, just found it on the web so will remove picture not wishing to upset anybody.

There are several forms to the Massey lever. In all cases, the important parts are the roller/lever interaction.

Essentially all English levers have the right angle lever and pointed "ratchet" tooth escape wheels.

By the way, the legend on David's drawing that says "unauthorized reproduction prohibited" is something he feels pretty strongly about. I hope you contacted him before posting the picture here. He is very good about allowing use, but he does want to be asked. info@davidpenney.co.uk