992B help

July 01, 2004, 17:38

Jerry Freedman

992B help

When I first started collecting, I purchased a 992B in an improper case. Recently I got my hands on a Hamilton case, that I assume is a #11. The watch serial number is C156873, from the 1944-46 era? I don't know if this is a proper case for this watch. Also, I need help with the dial. It is a Montgomery railway special. I would say it is double depressed rather than double sunk. It it is melamine, it is in perfect condition. In the center and seconds depression, I can see concentic lines. Is this a real dial or a replacement? The last question is, do all these pieces fit together timewise?

Jerry Freedman

July 01, 2004, 18:58

Lindell V. Riddle

Hi Jerry,

We all make ill-advised purchases early-on in collecting. For some reason the excitement pushes reason aside. Good news is, unlike some clinkers and clunkers your 992B can be straightened out without a lot of trouble.

First, your C156873 serial number dates to 1946 which draws a few lines in the sand. At that point they still were using Porcelain-Enamel Dials. Although interesting Single-Sunk versions were offered, many collectors prefer the Double-Sunk versions when a choice is available. Your dial is probably not correct for your movement from the way you describe it. However, a Melamine dial if really in top condition without crazing or fading is valuable and there are immediate buyers for it.

Our friend Terry Hall has done extensive research when the polished gold center wheel stopped being used and other fine points such as when dial design shifted. From their serial numbers he can determine which cases are correct for which movement number ranges. The Case 11 was available in 1946 but there are two versions of the Case 11, and your case serial number would be very helpful. The earlier Case 11 has shoulders, the later ones do not.

Below, a page from the first immediate post-war Hamilton Watch Catalog. You'll see the Case 11 at the lower right. The dial I personally prefer with a Case 11 is the one shown with it. That dial is readily available. Your dial probably resembles the one in the center, but if it is Melamine there will be an easily recognizable difference. The one in the image has full numbers 5 and 7 whereas the Melamine version as well as a reproduction available from S. LaRose has "clipped" or partial 5 and 7 numerals.

Hope this gets you started.

Lindell

Below, offerings featured in the 1946-47 Hamilton Catalog...

July 01, 2004, 19:55

Jerry Freedman

After talking to Lindell, it appears that my dial is a Hamilton melamine, too late for the movement. The case serial number is K280340, and we stll need to know if it is proper for the movement. Thanks Lindell.

Jerry

July 01, 2004, 20:33

Terry Hill

your model 11 case is also later than the movement....

movements in the C156xxx range with model 11 case would probably have a case serial number in the K124xxx range...

this example was a boxed watch... for compairson

c159823 k125243

as far as gold centerwheels... have seen an example C117xxx with a brass wheel... still looking for the cross over point.... will take time..

if you remove your dial and look at the back, the melamine dial will be black,
also still working on the date range for melamine.... for now... mid-to-late 40's, but working on some further info... also will take time...

July 01, 2004, 21:28

Jerry Freedman

Lindell and I had a long discussion about this watch. When I look at this movement, I can say for sure that the center wheel is not brass. The other wheels look like brass, and the center wheel is very much like the gold center wheels I have seen on other movements. The ad that Lindell posted shows that the model 11 case was used in 1946, so even if late, the case is a match for the movenent. I am going to pull the dial. I will try to post some pictures of the watch tomorrow.

Jerry Freedman

July 01, 2004, 23:04

Terry Hill

can you get a detailed pic of the wheel...

have seen too many examples after c120xxx that do not have a gold center wheel......

the 11 case you have would have been 'around' c270xxx to c280xxx movements....
does it have a smooth center ring?

the one in the pic above shows the steps in the center ring.

July 02, 2004, 17:49

Jerry Freedman

Here are pictures of 992B. I am making three postings. One of the watch with bezel on, one with the bezel off, and a close up of the center wheel.

July 02, 2004, 17:50

Jerry Freedman

2nd one.

July 02, 2004, 17:51

Jerry Freedman

Last one.

July 02, 2004, 20:02

Lindell V. Riddle

Excellent images Jerry,

(Image 1) First image shows a later Case 11 without the "shoulders" we often speak of. The crown is an incorrect replacement. The right crown can be somewhat difficult to obtain.

(Image 2) The second hand is from an earlier watch, of course that can be cured with a correct one. The dial is a recently manufactured S. LaRose replacement dial. You will probably want to replace that one with a correct original porcelain-enamel dial. Those replacement dials from S. LaRose are fine for a daily carry watch. They look great and hold up well, that also means we're not putting a far more valuable, original dial at risk.

(Image 3) Sure looks like a polished gold center wheel to me. It will be interesting to see other opinions on that one!

I'm sure a deal could be made to trade you up to the right dial if that is your choice.

Thanks for showing us your watch.

Lindell

July 02, 2004, 20:42

Terry Hill

center wheel...

yep, looks polished gold to me also.........

but so many around this serial number have been seen without this feature, i personally feel it is a fluke... perhaps an older repair for a broken center pinion ....

the existing examples show a vast majority without the gold center wheel well below this serial number..... and above it...

I would have to see many many more examples in this serial number range with the GCW to begin to change my opinion...