Any Information on this Illiniois Watch

February 07, 2005, 23:04

Richard J. Reidenbach

I am very interested in finding out what I can about a watch I have. It is an Illinois size 18 Grade 69 17-jewel screw back open face lever set. Serial number 1864611. Looks to be from around 1906. I say it is a Grade 69 because that is the information I received when I bought it. What does the Grade number signify?
The case has a number on the rim under where the back screws down. It is 8401465. The back cover says Philadelphia Watch Case Co. Guaranteed Twenty years. It has a number also but two of the center numbers were stamped over changing them. Originally it was 8415465 I think, not sure about the 1. It now is 8401465. Is the case correct for the watch? There are many markings inside the back cover. 6014cap, JC-78D, M2c1418[, 721-26 RxJ, B3076, B2010, B4001, U3544, U8600, U?0168, U13253. Can any one tell what any of them signify, past the fact the watch was serviced? Is there any significant history revealed by any of them? Such as a known Rail Road inspector’s mark. I would be interested to know if this watch would have been considered Rail Road worthy in its day. Where is there a good source or what books can any one recommend so I may learn more about the Illinois watch company and the watches they produced.

February 08, 2005, 11:19

Kevin Pestor

Welcome Richard to Chapter 185. There are many good people here and I am sure you will enjoy your time spent here.
The watch may have been RR grade in it's time as it is lever set. The marks on the inside of the case would be the marks the watch maker would put on it , when it was serviced. To find out more about the marks could be challenging.
Could you show a picture of the movement also?
Lindell has much knowledge about this hobby and could help you also.

February 08, 2005, 13:07

Lindell V. Riddle

Thanks Kevin for you friendly greeting and kind words.

Richard,

The definitive work on the Illinois Watch Company is the "American Pocket Watches, Illinois Watch Company Encyclopedia" put together by Bill Meggers and published by Roy Ehrhardt's "Heart of America Press" a few years ago. This 420 plus page spiral-bound volume weighs three pounds and carries a heavy sounding $75.00 price tag.

Heart of America Press (APWE2) Link to Illinois Encyclopedia Listing

This book is a formidable volume and it takes a great deal of patient study to fully comprehend it. However, if you're a serious Illinois collector it is indispensable to getting the facts and keeping them straight. Illinois is a complicated company to understand, we're still learning about it every day and that's what makes this hobby so fascinating.

A more general work is "American Watchmaking" by Michael C. Harrold which we distribute for $15.85 to any address in the world as a Chapter 185 fundraiser. This one is a basic 150 page primer on understanding the rise and fall of the great American watch companies. I recommend it for novice and advanced collectors alike.

Whether or not you spring for either of the books mentioned above, rest assured we in Chapter 185 will do all we can to answer any question you might have. And to that end, here is the information contained in the Illinois Encyclopedia on your number 1864611 from the Illinois factory listings... Serial numbers 1864401 through 1864700 is shown as 18-size, Lever-Set, Open-Face, 17-Jewel, (15 is crossed out) Model 6 and 69 is shown as the grade. In 1906 when your watch was built it would have been considered a Railroad Grade movement.

Looks like these were built from 1900 to 1920 in both 15 and 17-Jewel configurations. Your Open-Faced version of the Grade 69 is fairly common with some 119,568 produced. The grade number was just a way of designation and they can often be confusing. Many Illinois watches had named grades, like Sangamo or Bunn Special on them.

The fact your case has a re-struck number is interesting. We often see that, and we also find cases with just one digit different between components and no re-strike to correct them. The numbers were stamped in order to keep the case components matched for fit during production at the case-maker. Today most collectors want matching number cases. Your case is probably an original combination from what you describe.

The factory stamped markings identify your case as a good quality gold-filled case from Philadelphia which was one of the better makers. You're right about the hand inscriptions designating service marks. Many watch repair professionals used their own code and only rarely can we make any sense of it.

Hope at least some of the above is of help to you,

Lindell