Ball-Illinois #B800,001

July 10, 2006, 10:11

Cooksey Shugart

FYI, At the Louisville regional Fri. July 7th A Ball-Illinois Serial # B800,001 ( first Ball-Ill.)sold for $10,000.00. Looked to be recased, movement nice, dial ok, hands small rust markes.
Cooksey

July 10, 2006, 16:10

Samie L. Smith

I was talking to the owner on thrus. and was hoping to see it ,,talked to him again sunday night and he said he sold it. Too rich for me but it would have loved to seen it.

July 10, 2006, 18:57

Joel W. Sarich

VERY INTERESTING! I would have liked to see that one too!
Cheers!
Joel

July 10, 2006, 19:11

Tony Dukes

I just cannot believe the prices that some of these watches are being sold for......

July 13, 2006, 23:42

Don Herrington

i had the chance quite a while back to buy the watch for a bit under half of that. as did a few chapter 10 members... movement looked to be terribly abused to my eye. hands were painted over. dial was cracked (not just hairlines) and it was recased with hamilton B screw marks and pre B screw marks.... sad sight to me. especially being "numero uno"

most of it could be "corrected" but i just don't see how the poor movement could ever look remotely close to collectable.... if not for the fact that it was 800001 i would rate it about 3699 out of 3700 nowhere even close to nice.

center wheel looked like it was scraped with a jack knife.

motor barrel hub was destroyed.

Balance cock damaskeening was scratched and scarred. whip spring rusted

numerous screw driver slips and scratches.

are we talking about the same watch i saw last fall? if so someone payed about 8200 bucks for a serial number because if it was in the middle of the pack it would be THE worst example Ball Illinois I have seen personally.

if the movement looked nice recently... BEWARE someone HAD TO have destroyed another Illinois Ball to make this one "look good"

July 14, 2006, 13:42

Lindell V. Riddle

I agree with Don completely...

The man I'll call "Seller A" began offering this particular watch late last year.

Seller A first mentioned the watch at a Chapter 10 Akron-Canton, Fairlawn, Ohio Meeting and several of us were needless to say very interested. We finally saw the watch when it was brought to a subsequent meeting. It was a disappointing sight to say the least, the watch was in far below-average condition. I attributed the extra case-screw marks as Don did to there having been at least two other movements at one time or another in the case, but the worst problems were far deeper ones.

Don's list coincides with my recollections. When Don and I shared our evaluations we agreed we were looking at what might be a $1,500.00 to perhaps $1,800.00 watch if it were not for the interesting movement number. We discussed how one would essentially have to "strip" another watch in order to make this one worthwhile and then all it could ever be is a "put-together" example, somewhat of a replica of sorts, but not the kind of example most of us strive to collect.

Moving forward, not long after the Drawbridge Regional in April of this year I received a call one evening from a trader we'll call "Seller B" at this point. Seller B had bought the Ball-Illinois B800001 from Seller A and since it came from Northern Ohio this Seller B thought I might be able to tell him more about and I did. He was in the process of readying it for resale and he thought he could make it look better by using components from several other watches.

Evidently it worked, right or wrong looks like he got the big money.

July 14, 2006, 14:20

Peter S. Balkan

Taking this one step further.....

I understand and agree that we should strive for the best and most original examples of watches for our collections. And, I also agree that these examples... while most expensive.... will hold their value or gain the most in the future.

But... for us relative (but serious) newcomers, do we DARE to venture into the world of high-end, so-called "pristine" watches? It seems to me that the incentive and the sophistication of fakery (yes, I'll use the term) increases dramatically as the price rises.

I recently bought a Hamilton 950B, in ivory box, that I THOUGHT was new. It sure looked that way at the National. Later, upon closer examination and photography, I found some minute signs of wear that I could not reconcile with anything but..... just wear! I didn't get cheated but I didn't get what I thought I was buying.

Just about every watch I buy gets torn-down on the bench at (at least) serviced. I can assure everyone that not merely the majority, but the vast majority.... have some "issues!"

What are we to do.... pretend that we are merely collectors that have no interest in the internals of our watches? Are we to hide our heads in the sand and continue to pretend that our finest pieces are really what they are not?

I don't want to continue to collect mid-value and mid-condition watches forever. But, I have to observe that I am more comfortable in that area... paying less for watches that I can, at least, know the "issues" they have.