Elgin 17 size

August 06, 2004, 15:40

Jack Davis

Elgin 17 size

This is my latest acquisition. An Elgin, T.M. Avery, 17s. It a FP, 7j, KW & KS from the back movement in an Avery marked case.

I find these kind of interesting for a couple of reasons. As far as I can determine Elgin may have been the only American watch company to experiment with this size movement. It only lasted for a couple of years.

There is a brief notation in Shugart's book that they were intended for the English market but I have found no corroboration for this. Has anybody seen documentation that confirms this?

Also, there is some question about whether the cases for these movements should be marked either with the company name or the name on the movement. This case is hallmarked Avery. See pic below.

Jack Davis

August 06, 2004, 15:42

Jack Davis

The serial number on the Avery is 409027. However, on this Leader, #506680, the case is marked Elgin N.W. Co.

And an Inter-Ocean model I saw was simply marked Elgin. Many of the Leader examples were marked Coin Silver or Warranted Coin Silver with no maker name but appeared to be original to the watch.

Any thoughts on whether these 17s should have been in specially marked cases?

Jack

August 06, 2004, 15:43

Jack Davis

As a side note, this and other Avery movements I have seen in the lowish 400,000 range are all wound and set from the back but the Leaders and the Inter-Ocean set from the front.

Jack

August 06, 2004, 20:12

Stephen L. Russell

An Avery? I am going to have to get one of these for my son!

August 06, 2004, 23:13

Jack Davis

Hi Stephen,

I am assuming your sons name is Avery?

Jack

August 07, 2004, 00:16

Stephen L. Russell

Right on the money!

Avery John Louis Russell...my latest bundle of pride and joy.

August 07, 2004, 11:54

Jim McKinney

Hey, Stephen . . .

What's with the new Avatar ??

I've been away for a couple of days & it just kinda jumped out at me . . . was this question previously addressed while I was away - or - am I, by chance, the first to notice ??

August 07, 2004, 19:49

Stephen L. Russell

Jim, it is just temporary

My normal Avatar is acting up on the CAT forum.

August 07, 2004, 20:31

Lindell V. Riddle

Jack,

Your watch was named for an Elgin watch Company Director, Thomas M. Avery. Eventually, in 1878 Avery succeeded Benjamin W. Raymond as Elgin's second company president.

"On August 28, 1874, the company brought out two new model full plate movements, Seventeen and one half size, named respectively "T. M. Avery" and the "Leader". These movements were a little different from the other model, as the main wheel was between the plates instead of having a separate bridge, and the balance, which was a plain one, ran in a countersink in the top plate. They were placed at a low price, and the latter grade was cased and sold as a complete watch. The company had in contemplation at the time the manufacture of cases as a part of their business, and machinery for the purpose was being accumulated, but the idea was abandoned. The odd size of these movements rendered them unpopular in trade, and their manufacture was discontinued in 1877."

...By Charles S. Crossman, 1886 "Jeweler's Circular and Horological Review"

You'll note Mr. Crossman, a contemporary writer is very specific as to the years in which these watches were produced. Compare his information above with the Elgin records on your watch...

http://elginwatches.org/cgi-bin/elgin_sn?sn=409027&action=search

Lindell