Illinois Motor Barrell Question

August 06, 2007, 16:11

Lindell V. Riddle

The simple answer is no, not all "Motor Barrel" marked Illinois 16-size movements are 60-hour.

Fact is there were "Motor Barrel" movements sold by Illinois Watch Company prior to the "Sixty-Hour" mainspring introduction. There was also overlapping in production and additionally certain 60-Hour 16-size movements were not necessarily marked as such so it can get a little confusing. If you provide your movement number that would help in narrowing down exactly what you have.

Lindell

August 06, 2007, 17:46

Foster Miller

Thanks!

The movement # is 3654711. It is listed as a 16s Bunn Special 23j. Just wondering if "motor barrell" does indicate it is a 60 movement

thanks again!!!

August 06, 2007, 17:56

Peter S. Balkan

The database says, no.

August 06, 2007, 19:27

Tom Huber

The first 60 Hr BunnSpecial was SN 4,492,501. These were model 14's. The model 13 was 60 hr and came out at SN 4,166,xxx. The model 13 is a 17S and is a Sangamo Special.

Tom

August 06, 2007, 19:50

Foster Miller

Thanks for the info. Just wanted to make sure before I committed to the purchase.

August 06, 2007, 20:13

Lindell V. Riddle

Foster,

So now you have three "NO" opinions!

To flesh it out a bit further, according to the Illinois Factory Records your movement number 3654711 is a 16-size, Lever-Set, Open-Face, 23-Jewel, Model 11 Bunn Special from 1920 production. It is important to recognize the first 60-Hour Movements were not introduced until 1924 which is obviously 4 years later.

The earliest 60-Hour, 23-Jewel Bunn Specials show up in a run which began at the 4492001 movement number. But as stated earlier 60-Hour was phased in and there were many Non-60-Hour Bunn Specials intermixed into that and subsequent runs as well. This is a complicated subject. About beginnings, Tom is correct on the earliest 60-Hour Sangamo Specials (UN-MARKED 60-HOUR) at 4166001 movement number.

A lot of collectors and unfortunately many sellers improperly "assume" the three screws on a ratchet wheel or the words "Motor Barrel" mean 60-Hour Mainspring. Motor Barrel marking on a movement means Motor Barrel, the mainspring style is yet another matter. Rather than generalizing we should check the number.

Show your seller the real-deal below.

Lindell

Here is 4492519 among the first 60-Hour Bunn Specials...

August 06, 2007, 21:13

Foster Miller

Thank you to all for the info. Having access to such a large # of experts has made collecting so much easier.

Although it is not a 60 hour, I think I may buy it anyway. The movement appears to be very clean, it has a really nice montgomery dial and is in a Bunn Special Case.

Thanks again!