Internet Horology Club 185
Which (Affordable) Movements Are Suitable For This Case???
March 13, 2006, 10:01
John WoolseyWhich (Affordable) Movements Are Suitable For This Case???
Hi All,
A few years ago I bought a New / Old stock pocket watch case with the intention of putting a decent movement in it.
I have a quantity of PW movements, but didn't realise none of them were suitable until I got the case and opened it.
The case has a screw back and bezel, the bezel having shallow 'coin edge' engraving next to the flat bevel edged glass.
The crown will 'snap out' slightly when pulled, and has a Male stem attached. The case body under the bezel also has a cut-out which I'm assuming is for a setting lever.
The inside diameter of the case body is 45mm / 1.77" (Smallest dia, not the larger one which creates the step the pillar plate rests on).
The engraving inside the case back consists of the text " Philadelphia Watch Case Co " inside a double circular ring which encloses a "Crown".
Above the crest is stamped "Imitation Silver - USA", and below it a long box enclosing the word "Silverode"
Case number 251912.
I'm not very familiar with American PW's at all, so have no idea what makes of movement the case was meant for.
I've attached photo's below.
Any advice welcome! (or should I just sell it?)
Best regards
John Woolsey.
March 13, 2006, 10:03
John WoolseyTop View
March 13, 2006, 10:04
John WoolseyCase Back
March 13, 2006, 10:05
John WoolseyBezel Removed
March 13, 2006, 10:23
C. Keith JohnsonJohn, You probably will get replies from those more expert than I but it appears to me that you have the easiest case to fit a movement in that is made. I think it is a standard 18 size case and will take any standard 18sz American and some foreign movements except one that requires a female stem. It will take pendant set or lever set movements, open face or hunting as a sidewinder. In my experience the 18 size movements were mostly made to the same dimensions unlike the variations that can be found in almost all smaller sizes. Among your movements, do you have an American 18size movement that won't fit this case? Good luck................Keith
March 13, 2006, 10:34
Terry HillIt appears to be a standard 18s to me also, the lever position is another 'tell'... most 18s movements have the lever at the 2 o'clock position...
if this is truly NOS, with no case screw marks... why even put a movement in it? Save it as an example....
It will only be this way one time.....
.
March 13, 2006, 11:43
Lindell V. Riddle
Good points!
I find the lever-cut varies among makers and at times even within the same maker's products. There evidently was no real standard lever position, so some cases have a wide slot as a "one-size-fits-all" kind of fitting thing. Keith's idea of putting a movement in place to "try" makes sense. Terry's point about unused cases is intriguing but a shortage of good cases means few of us are willing to take that advice. 
By the way we should also explain the obvious. Your case is essentially nickel, and for that reason is the toughest, longest wearing case you could ever imagine. Among the various names used were "Silverine" and "Silvalloy" in addition to "Silverode" such as found on this one. I do not recall previously seeing the "Imitation Silver U.S.A." and wonder if that is an indication of the case being one intended for export.
It would be interesting to know more about that marking!
March 13, 2006, 14:33
John WoolseyMany thanks everyone for all the replies.
I've spent the last couple of hours wrestling to get the back off the case, and finally succeeded.
Keith, sorry but no movements at all that size. I've several Waltham movements from around 1880-1905, but all too small, mostly key wind and in bits, nothing bigger at all.
Terry, Now I've got the back off, I can state for certain that there are no retaining screw marks on the case, so I do believe it is NOS.
I can certainly appreciate the merits of your thoughts re- keeping it unused, but to me, keeping a case without a movement in it would be akin to hoarding a NOS vintage car without an engine or interior ..... it would Really pee me off eventually wondering what I could shove in to use and show it off
Lindell, I've attached a close-up of the crest now, so hopefully someone will recognise it.
I wondered if it was nickel, just never seen it described that way before. Wonder if it was as you say, something to do with imports and maybe the 'trade description' laws of the time.
Thanks again folks.
Best regards
John
The small black specks on the bottom of the case ring, are actually numbers stamped into the face. Not sure how the case ring is made on these, but the 'line' impression on the body appears to have been done in the casting or stamping of the ring. If it's stamped, it may have been caused by crud on the press die.
JW.
March 13, 2006, 14:34
John WoolseyImage of the case back crest
March 13, 2006, 15:57
Lindell V. Riddle
John, your case definitely has that "unused but slightly shopworn" look to it. As I said above except for the "Imitation Silver U.S.A." it looks like any other Phiadelphia 18-size open-face case. But again, the exact lever position may vary with different watch movements.
Perhaps the image below which is of a similar unused case in my collection may be of help. You'll see the 18-size case has a 45mm opening on the front side. You'll find the last three or four digits of the case serial number on the frame edge and bezel.
Below a similar Philadelphia nickel case to compare...March 13, 2006, 16:13
Lindell V. Riddle
Here are the inside-back markings from the case shown in the image directly above this post. This one is a standard 18-size Philadelphia case in nickel. It will take most any 18-size but as I pointed out earlier, carefully check the lever position carefully unless you're comfortable filing the case-slot.
Case maker's signature from the one I shared above...March 13, 2006, 18:19
John WoolseyMany thanks Lindell, just need to keep my eyes open for a suitable movement now.
I never bothered cleaning the case before photographing it, so it does look a tad scruffy. It's actually much better than the photo's would suggest.
What sort of camera and settings do you use to get crisp images like that? Mine always turn out a little 'grainy' which doesn't help images at all.
Best regards
John
March 13, 2006, 19:14
Terry HillThat is an interesting marking on your case John... and I too believe it had to do with the exporting of the case....
and it appears there are no CS marks....
Still...
A NOS case makes for an interesting stand alone addition to a collection...
Like I said, it is only like this once in its lifetime....
.
March 13, 2006, 19:43
Lindell V. Riddle
John,
Don't tell Terry, but my unused case I showed you has a locomotive on the back.
About the pictures, the camera I use is a now easily available Nikon 950 set at macro and auto-exposure. I take two or three of each view and choose the best of them. My lighting is just the ordinary room lighting and then I balance the brightness and contrast with Adobe Photoshop Elements 3.0 version.
Those who know far more that I, and there are many, have provided worthwhile information here...
FORUM: "How to Photograph Your Watches and Clocks"
March 14, 2006, 10:59
John WoolseyThanks for starting my day with a good laugh Lindell
appreciated that!
I think one of the problems with my pic's is lack of light. I've been using room lighting too generally. I've also tried with a double tube watchmakers lamp, but it makes the screen on the camera flicker and screws up the exposure even on Auto and macro, can't use flash as it obscures everything. Will have to make a light box and see how that goes.
If I do get a movement for the case, it probably will be a stem wind / set type, I just couldn't bring myself to deface the bezel filing a slot for a lever.
Thanks for the manufacturers names too Wes, I know what to look out for now.
Looks like the case is likely to remain in storage for a while longer yet Terry ...... so you may get your way yet!
Best regards
John