Internet Horology Club 185
Cases as unquestionable fine art.

This topic can be found at:
https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1086047761/m/5806058084

November 09, 2003, 18:05
Brian Watson
Cases as unquestionable fine art.
There was a watch on auction at Jones-Horan today that had a mind-blowingly beautiful case. I had a fax bid placed on it but did so without really finding a comparable for reference. Subsequent to placing my bid at what I felt was a "possible" price, I found a comparable, at least in some ways, case and perhaps movement. I will try again to post pictures for any "cases as art" afficianados. I hope that it works. If not, the item # at JH is 432. Click on picture #s 1 and 2. Enjoy.
B

Jones-Horan 432

November 09, 2003, 18:18
Brian Watson
While this is certainly different, notice the pendant design and beautiful engraving with masterful enamelwork.

Anitquorum Lossier Enameled

November 10, 2003, 14:25
Brian Watson
I just got the JH call that I won the auction. It took my top bid to get it.
B
November 10, 2003, 14:39
Steve Maddox
I might be wrong, but I'd bet the two cases in Brian's images above are European (and probably made by the same company).

If I can find time in the next few days, I'll go retrieve a watch from the safety deposit box that I think y'all will really like. It's a solid 14k Hamilton 993, with the most elaborately engraved case I've ever seen. It isn't an exaggeration to say that every millimeter of the entire surface of the case is hand-engraved.

In the mean time, below are some images I happen to have on hand of a case that houses a South-Bend 294. It's an American case as well, but at the moment, I can't recall which company made it.

======================

Steve Maddox
President, NAWCC Chapter #62
North Little Rock, Arkansas
IHC Charter Member 49


November 10, 2003, 14:42
Jerry Treiman
That is a real beauty!
November 10, 2003, 15:06
Brian Watson
Steve:
That's a very nice, deeply engraved case. Thanks for the pic's.

I'm sure that you're right about the cases being European. The watches, which have matching case numbers, are only about 200 serial numbers apart. They also appear to share definite case shape characterics and engraving skill. I'm pretty happy about being its new owner.
B
November 10, 2003, 19:11
Aaron Bereiter
Very nice Brian! Truly a work of art! Wink

Aaron
November 11, 2003, 03:48
Bill Cobb
Beautiful Brian.... I don't believe I saw any dates, but do you know how old the enamelled case is?
November 11, 2003, 12:14
Brian Watson
Hi Bill,
The watch with the medeival depiction was, according to Antiquorum, made around 1914. Being that the multi-colored gold case has a serial number approximately 200 its junior, I'd have to guess that it was from the 1914-1915 period.
B
November 11, 2003, 12:29
___________
Brian -

Do you recall the lot number and date of the Antiquorum that the watch was in?

Fred
November 11, 2003, 13:03
Brian Watson
Lot #43 in their Novemeber 16-17, 2002 auction in Geneva. If you go to antiquorum.com and enter "golay fils" in the search box it'll take you there.
B
November 11, 2003, 14:08
Jerry Freedman
This is case by Dueber.I have not seen many cases by American companies using enamel. It is on a 6 size, 16J Lady Waltham. It shows some wear where small pieces of enamel are lost. It is 18K.


November 11, 2003, 14:11
Jerry Freedman
This is the rear of the case.


November 11, 2003, 21:28
Jeffrey P. Hess
A bud has had this watch for years. He willnot sell it to me.

I am getting to the end of my rope.

If anyone would like to whack him and take the watch let me know.


Jeff Hess


November 11, 2003, 21:34
Jeffrey P. Hess
While you are at his house...snag this one for me..

Jeff Hess


November 11, 2003, 22:01
Jeffrey P. Hess
Same guy...

I mean.. he is a buddy and all..but...

when you are getting the others..get this one too..

He should have just listened to me and took my offers...


Jeff Hess


November 11, 2003, 22:44
John Pavlik
Jeff,

Give me his address, I take the 2nd one and give you 1 and 3... Wink What movement is in the 2nd one and where is the hinge..."Absolutly Stunning"

John Pavlik

not my real name in case anybody asks.. Big Grin
November 12, 2003, 00:05
Brian Watson
All very sweet indeed. An angel feeding diamonds to the moon, incredible work.
B
November 12, 2003, 00:55
Mike Nardick
Come on Guys! Please post the pics in the Gallery Also.
We need to keep 'em for years to come....... If thats possible
Confused Wink
November 12, 2003, 02:07
Jerry Treiman
I snagged the pictures of this watch off eBay a while ago. I envy whoever now owns this beauty. As is so common with these fancy cases it has a 7-jewel movement (Waltham 8-size).


November 12, 2003, 07:31
Jeffrey P. Hess
Johnny Pavliko,

He is only a two drive from you. Wipe off the prints...

And Mike, let me figure our how to put these on the saving deal and I will.

Good idea.

JPH
November 15, 2003, 20:50
Stephanie O'Neil
Brian W.,
Exquisite timepiece cases. Thanks for posting these! Smile

Jerry F.,
That's a beauty Jerry. Are those sea pearls inset in the case? Confused

and Jeff H.,
Oooooooh, love them all; particularly cupid feeding the man in the moon diamonds! Cool I too would like to take a peek inside! Those are truly incredible pocket watches. Thanks for showing them! Smile

Jerry T.,
Beautiful watch cases Jerry. Thanks for posting them. Smile
Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Stephanie O'Neil
NAWCC Member 143979
December 23, 2003, 11:44
Brian Watson
I finally found and purchased a copy of Warren Niebling's "History of the American Watch Case".
In it, it shows a patent that seems to be the applicable one for Jeff Hess' 'Man in the moon" case. According to this patent, the patent holder was one Frederick Zimmerman and had a date of May 17, 1887. Anyone possessing this book, or access to patents, will find it on page 148 of Niebling or patent #17348 respectively. I'd scan it if I possessed such a thing as a scanner.
B
December 23, 2003, 15:12
Brian Watson
Perhaps it's not a man in the moon but rather a "Morgan in the moon" since it's most certainly taken much of its shape from the obverse side of a Morgan silver dollar.
B
January 27, 2004, 22:22
Steve Maddox
The image below shows front and back views of a hand-engraved 16s, 14k, "Keystone" hunting case, which houses a 21j, Hamilton 993 that dates to about 1904. The watch was acquired from a local estate, and that, combined with the fact that there are no extra screw marks in the case, lead me to believe it's all original.

This is the case I mentioned in a reply above, and as far as I can recall, it's the most intricately engraved case I've ever seen. The engraving is so fine that my "scanner photography" entirely fails to do it justice, and the pattern extends unbroken all the way around the edges. The only spot on the entire surface of the case that isn't engraved, is the area in the shield surrounding the initials.

I have no idea how this watch managed to survive in this pristine condition for an entire century, but in my estimation, it's a truly outstanding example of the engraver's art, and I consider myself extremely fortunate to have it. I'm sorry it took me two and a half months to retrieve it from a safety deposit box, but I've been really, really busy!

===================

Steve Maddox
Past President, NAWCC Chapter #62
North Little Rock, Arkansas
IHC Charter Member 49


January 27, 2004, 22:40
Steve Maddox
The following is a 1 inch square "detail" of the case back in the image above. For some reason, the pattern seems to show better in black and white.........

===========

SM


January 27, 2004, 22:54
Lindell V. Riddle
WOW!!!

That case was worth the wait Steve, it's a real beauty.

Thanks for sharing it with us!

Lindell

Wink
January 28, 2004, 23:25
Stephen L. Russell
Jeff,

I am mesmerised by the watch of the cherub feeding the moon,it is sublime.Can you post the dial and movement?

Maby we should pool our resources and make an offer he can not refuse.Six months each if he says yes.

If he says no then he can "say hello to my little friend" Wink Big Grin...and it is ours!

Your friend owns a beautiful case.Thanks for posting it.

Steve,
Amazing engraving work,must be great to hold in your hand,to feel the workmanship.
January 29, 2004, 01:00
Jack Goldstein
Absolutely breathtaking,
That's ART in any language

Jack Goldstein
NAWCC 0152932
IHC 185 #274
http://www.ball-rr-pocketwatches.com
January 29, 2004, 01:37
Carlos Flores
Steve,
Do you believe that all this small details were engraved by hand?, I means they are really small to just make one case at a time.
January 29, 2004, 02:27
Steve Maddox
Hi Carlos,

Yes, I'm certain that it's all hand work. I have some cases with stamped designs, but the one in the images above is an entirely different thing. It also has hinges with 5 segments, instead of the usual 3, and I'd guess it was probably Keystone's highest grade case.

For what it's worth, it seems to me that the Keystone Watch Case Co. eventually ended up with many of the best engravers in the world. They acquired a number of other case companies over the years, as well as the New York Standard Watch Co., the E. Howard Watch Co., and perhaps a few others.

As an interesting side note, I have a few "Dan Patch" stopwatches, including original cased examples by the New York Standard and the New England watch companies. The original NYS examples are housed in Keystone cases, with really nice images of Dan Patch on the back, while the New England examples are housed in cases made by the New England Watch Co., and the engraving on them isn't nearly as nice. As a matter of fact, the image of Dan Patch engraved on the back of my NE, makes me wonder if the engraver had ever actually seen a horse!

If anyone's interested in seeing a side by side comparison of the original NE and NYS Dan Patch cases, I'll try to get mine and make a couple of scans in the not too distant future.

================

SM