Internet Horology Club 185
Paper Dial Over Old Dial?

This topic can be found at:
https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1086047761/m/5503938387

November 12, 2014, 20:33
David Flegel
Paper Dial Over Old Dial?
Is this a paper dial transferred over old dial.


November 12, 2014, 21:20
Bruce Stewart
I believe it is a decal with various clear and translucent areas so the numbers show through. I had a nice Illinois Stewart Special that I bought this way. The decal soaked off easily, in case you are leaning in that direction.
November 13, 2014, 03:58
Mike Haig
If this decoration had been applied at the time of purchase wouldn't it be part of the history of this particular timepiece and as such worthy of keeping intact.
Mike
November 13, 2014, 04:33
William D. White
Private label dials, when originally made, usually only had type and sometimes graphics which were hand painted with enamel pigments mixed with an oil vehicle which would be fired onto the surface. To my knowledge, additional photographs or graphics would later be added by a specialist in the form of a transfer or decal. Depending on the quality of the added imagery, these enhancements, especially those photographic, can add value and interest. Ultimately, the dial is made of enamel (powdered glass) fused to a copper substrate and any unwanted additions can be safely removed with dish soap and water in some cases and more aggressive solvents such as Goof-Off can be used in stubborn situations. The great enemies of an enamel dial are excessive heat, abrasives and acids.

William
November 13, 2014, 10:55
Donald Trumble
Dial decals like this are usually put on watches to resell in flea markets and the like. More often than not a nondescript low jewel movement will be behind the decal covered dial. There are exceptions to that and on rare occasions a decent movement shows up like Bruce found and at times there might be a good dial under the picture.

The one in question is a flea market dial picture stuck on a porcelain enamel dial, the advice William posted... "unwanted additions can be safely removed with dish soap and water in some cases and more aggressive solvents such as Goof-Off can be used in stubborn situations" ...is the reasonable way to go with it.

Be gentle just in case there is a worthwhile dial Eek underneath.

Don
November 13, 2014, 11:28
Bruce Stewart
I agree with Don completely.
November 13, 2014, 13:08
David Flegel
Here is picture of movement and info on it. More comments please and what you think value is.

Grade: 44


G.M. Wheeler
Movement Serial Number: 3003522
Grade: 44
Model: 5
Class: 9
Estimated Production Year: 1889
Run Quantity: 1,000
Total Production: 69,000
Size: 18s
Jewels: 15j
Movement Configuration: Openface

Movement Finish: Nickel
Movement Setting: Pendant
Plate: Full Plate
Barrel: Going
Train: Quick
Regulator: Traveling Nut
Adjusted: No
Railroad Grade: No
Notes: G.M. Wheeler

If it were a good dial why cover it up.
I think this was the second or third watch I bought many years ago. I think a novice got took.
I cannot take it apart myself to do the work so will leave it as is.


November 13, 2014, 22:16
David Abbe
Roy Ehrhardt who was famous for his published volumes of historical data about watches (and many other collectible things too) made thousands of these dials evidently intended to "dress up" an otherwise damaged or uninteresting dial.
November 13, 2014, 22:54
Bruce Stewart
That is interesting, Dave, because it was Roy's daughter that sold me my Stewart Special 6 years ago that had a decal on the dial.