Waltham Riverside Model 1888 Questions

May 14, 2012, 13:14

Peter Kaszubski

Hi all I just can't find this one in fat book
its size 16 HC waltham riversida as can be seen
on the movement.
What will be the ABP price on this one?

May 14, 2012, 13:15

Peter Kaszubski

5500815 bmovement

May 14, 2012, 16:54

Keith Klimkowicz

ABP $125 as shown for a A.W.W.Co., 15J, M#1888, SW, HC. A little more than 16,000 were made in this configuration marked Riverside.

May 14, 2012, 17:36

Peter Kaszubski

Thanks.

May 14, 2012, 18:38

Jerry King

Keith, where did you find that ABP price...? My price guide does not have a Mdl. 1888, 15j, Hunter listed on page 125....

It just dawned on me what you did and you specified it also....You based it on a AWWCo 1888 15j....In that case, my book shows a ABP $70.00 value....

That makes me wonder, though, is the Waltham database correct in calling this a 15 jewel or is it really a 16/17 jewel movement....one might need to take it apart to find out for sure....

Regards,

Jerry

May 14, 2012, 20:02

Peter Kaszubski

Hmmm once I get some time I might just do that
to count the jewels

May 14, 2012, 20:29

Lindell V. Riddle

Peter,

According to the Waltham Factory Records your 5500815 should be as follows...

Run numbered 5500001-5502000 is reported as being blacked as 16-size, Model 88, Riverside, Stem-Wind, 15-Jewel, Pendant-Set, Patent Regulator, Breguet Hairspring, Hunter, Manufactured With Premium Materials.

What I see in the image above looks to be a 15-Jewel because we see a bushing rather than a jewel in the center. This is a very good quality movement and I see the dial as especially attractive.

Lindell

May 14, 2012, 20:49

Peter Kaszubski

Thanks Lindell.
I still have no clue how to count the jewels with out taking few parts off the watch.
Front cover is broken but I hope I can fix it.
I will be asking for help soon

May 14, 2012, 22:08

Eugene Buffard

I don't know if this will help or not, There are 7 jewels in the balance assembly. 2 cap jewels, 2 hole jewels, 1 Roller jewel, 2 pallet jewels. If the pallet fork has 2 hole Jewels and NO CAP JEWELS that makes 9 jewels, If the escapement wheel has 2 Hole jewels and no cap jewels that makes 11. And so on. The only way to till for sure is to take the dial off as you stated above. Because some times they only jeweled the Back off the movement. Another way to tell it is a high grade. Which a 15 jewels is High grade at the time. Is the word ADJUSTED. They would not adjusted an 11 jewel.

May 14, 2012, 23:08

Peter Kaszubski

Thanks Eugene.

May 15, 2012, 11:22

C. Keith Johnson

Peter,
These Mod. 88 with pendant setting are tricky to get back together once you pull the winding stem. Go slow..............Keith

May 15, 2012, 12:03

Peter Kaszubski

thanks for the info.

May 15, 2012, 13:54

Lindell V. Riddle

Gene explained the basic jeweling of movements well, He also pointed out being aware of whether or not a given movement is "Adjusted" whether it is shown on the movement or in factory records. The notation of being "Manufactured With Premium Materials" on a Waltham will be shown as "P" on their records. In that column will be "U" for Unadjusted or "A" for Adjusted or as in this instance a "P" for Premium Materials which of course includes the Adjustments which would be part of that very important designation. Also, the name "Riverside" was usually reserved for use on higher grade Waltham watches which is another important point to remember.

This would have been a very good quality movement in its day. At that time, the dawn of the 1890s most Railroad watches were still only 15-Jewel but that would change, by the mid 1890s the 17-Jewel movements were becoming the accepted standard, they would become known in the trade as "fully-jeweled" movements. But the center wheel moves so slowly many in our hobby will tell you the jewels there, numbers 16 and 17 serve little if any real function. The subject of jeweling and the purpose of cap jewels that can run up the count to 21, 23 or more is not unlike today trying to explain why you would need 300 horsepower in your family car.

Be well, my friends.

Lindell

May 15, 2012, 16:09

Peter Kaszubski

Thanks and this is why I love this place.
I keep on learning every day from all of you Thanks
and my hat off to ya all.