According to the yellow book there were 11,000 of this grade made which puts it between the 17j grade 370 and the 19j grade 572 in production but this 16s 19j lever set made in the mid-30's does not show up that often. All the ones that I have seen have a single sunk 24 hour dial and there is some reference that they were made for railroad service in Mexico but you would expect to see them turn up one ebay.

This grade is the last of the model 13 and seems like a throw-back. Any pictures and comments are welcome

I'll be following this thread with interest as I am trying to collect a set of model 13's (needed to focus my efforts) and until I read this was unaware of the grade 527.

I also "found" I had missed the grade 486. This is the grade list I now have for model 13's - have I missed any more?

350 (Veritas)
360 (Veritas)
361 (BWR)
466
486
527

Regards

Peter

Peter you might want to toss the grade 342 in there. The Elgin guide book shows the 342 as a bridged model 9, I have a 342 from each of the 5 runs and none are a 3 finger bridge model and I have never seen a grade 342 that was a 3 finger bridge. The 342 is a model 13, this was Elgin's 3rd RR approved lever set after the the 270/280 which were all bridge models.

I picked one up but when I went to look for some examples not much turns up. By the way the 342 and 466 share the same basic traits, 16 size, 17 jewels and adjusted to 4 positions (342 1st rum was marked "Adjusted" 2nd run marked A3P).

That was also my question, for a watch that should be considered "common" by the production number is not very common from what I seen, it is almost to the point of being hard to find/rare.


Grade 361

Grade 342 1st run

Drats, thought I was getting close to a set - was only after a 361. Now an extra 3 to find, and by the sounds of it not that common.

As you mentioned records seem to be a bit patchy. The Guide has your error on the 342, as does pocketwatchdatabase.com (although I note it's been reported), and elgintime has it as a model 9.

Anyway, time spent hunting is time not spending...

Regards

Peter

The 527 might be very hard to find, it is gilt colored and marked a3p and the 19 jewels might be a good search tool. The 1st run 342 will be right there with the 361 (same 1000 made) along with the 342 run 2 adj3p but you will see runs 3-5 on ebay with some regularity a4p (3000 made). The 468 might be the most second most common after the 342 but only 2000 of that grade were made. At 11000 you would say the 527 would be the most common but try finding one.

For whatever reason Elgin did not make a lot of model 13 watches, some were extremely good grades and the lowest jewel count for the model is 17.

When I did the grade lookup for the 486 I transposed the last two digits and looked up the total for the 468, 38,000 486's were produced.

Ah well, if it was too easy it would be shopping instead of collecting

If you stumble across any of the above please keep me in mind.

Also, you referred earlier to a "yellow book" - what might that be?

Regards

Peter

Roy E. created a serial number and price guide for Elgin and the covers are yellow. I have been thinning out my duplicates so I know I have some nice examples in the later runs of the grade 342, I will post pictures of at least one. The grade 342 was one of my first Elgins so I ended up collecting an example of each run and ended up with one or two extra.

Thanks for the info, and look forward to some photos.

Regards

Peter

Here are some pictures - Dial

Case Back

Close up of jewel and position markings

The watch is pretty filty, I did clean the case but the movement needs a good COA, crystal and a balance staff but sill not a bad buy for $80

Hi Claude, nice pics but not sure if the dial pic worked (but I'm in the middle of moving house and viewing on my phone).

I've sent you a pm.

Regards

Peter

Sorry, dial pic is fine, took a while for my phone to load...

Regards

Peter

I need to get the movement cleaned since the whole watch appeared to have coal dust gum, it took some time to clean the case and dial. The crystal was broken because it looks to have taken a hit (seen on the bezel) near the 2-3 min markers. The case is a Star watch case Cyclone 10 year gold filled model.

Some of the later (post war) 527's that I have seen are gilt plates but mine are nickel. You would think you would see more of these but you don't.

Maybe I have been overlooking them but this is the first one I have ever seen!

No Ronny you are not missing them, even though the production number is 11,000 these simply do not turn up that often. I collect Elgins and this is the first one I have seen. Maybe most of them went south of the border and never made it back.

Claude,

I have now seen 2, yours and one I just picked up on Ebay.

I think that one was after the WW2 stop period and had gilt screws but nickel plates. The other type I have seen was one with gilt plates and nickel/chrome trim.

Hi all, after 2 years of looking I finally managed to snag a grade 527 made in 1937 from the database.

Running pretty fast even with the regulator set to slow, but has a good balance arc. Needs a good clean...

Here are some pics...

Case front

dial...

movement...

inside case back (looks like someone was doing some gold testing)..

So now I think I have all the model 13's listed above, finally.

However, I do see the grade 342 listed in the databases as either not marked, or marked GM Wheeler. Has anyone seen one marked GM Wheeler? I've seen a reasonable number of unmarked examples but never a GM Wheeler.

Regards

Peter in Oz

I have at least one 342 from each of the 5 runs and have looked at many more and have yet to see one marked GMW.

If they exist I have not seen one, I think that is just one of the typo's or mistakes in the Elgin SN listing.

Thanks Claude.

Regards

Peter in Oz