Here is my Wm Ellery.

Here is the inside case lid.

Here is the inside of the back lid.

The dial:

The movement:

The serial number is 85778. I don't know whether or not this is silver, but I would think that if it were it would be so marked. It is not marked as such, but is very tarnished. Did any of these have a diamond balance jewel? This one looks very impressive, I think.
Now, if this were a coin the, dealers would say, 'don't touch the patina.' Here is my question: should I have this one polished, or not? It would take a lifetime to restore the patina to this watch if I take it off, but it would be great to see it like new, also. Anyone care to venture an opinion here for me?

Steve G.

Here is a better photo:

And another. I'll admit that this is in rough shape, but you can't have everything.

My opinion is if you are going to restore the watch mechanically, then cosmetic restoration goes along with it.

Steve - I, personally, would not be averse to a mild cleaning with silver cleaner. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think all early American silver cases were marked as to content. Try a test cleaning of a small inside area and see what it shows.

About the diamond end stone, I think I have read that some Wm Ellery movements may have been upgraded with features such as a diamond end stone.

My opinion about so called "patina" is that it is the result of neglect. Throw the watch in a drawer,or just leave it laying around and you get "patina". The watch didn't look like that originally,and if carried regularly like it was meant to be,your pocket would keep it polished. I have taken a few that looked like that and serviced the movement and just decided to carry it for a few days to see how it fit me. You would be surprised how much better it will look with just a few days in your pocket. My wife says the watches are just happy to be used again and look better the more they are used. I agree.

By the way,that sure looks like a silver case to me.

Steve, Regardless of this watch's "condition", it being finished in 1863 makes it a Civil War era piece worth every penny to restore to as good a condition possible. Polishing the case is a must.

It looks like some past watchmaker "slugged" a metal Jewel into the 4th wheel porthole jewel position (unless it is a very very dirty jewel). In repairing this if a replacement jewel cannot be found and the watch runs OK, I would leave it alone.

The price guide shows a 2 star value for this 1857 movement watch if it is in an original silver case and under s/n 46,600. This serial number limitation on the American Watch Co., Boston, William Ellery remains a real point of contention among collectors. It was intended to refer to the events surrounding its manufacture, and the actual serial number range may be considerably different because assigned production serial numbers were released in disparate groups then.

Either way THIS IS A CIVIL WAR PERIOD PIECE.

Serial


Start: 7/1/1863 End: 7/31/1863
First: 85201 Last: 85800
Model: 1857 Name: Wm Ellery
Material: A Grade: Wm.E., NL
Size: 18 Size: 18
Plate: FP Plate: NL
Jewelling: Plain Jewels: 7-11
Balance: Steel Bal: Steel
Style: KW Style:
NL

Comment:
Source: BMW Date:
12/1/2002

My two cents. Patina may be a critical part of art, but I go with what the others say. When they were a common part of a persons wardrobe, you would probably never see a pocket watch left to tarnish.

My model 1877 Waltham (1886) is at Chris's for a refreshing and I can't wait to see how it comes out from a good cleaning.

Well, thanks a million, everyone! I'll have my watch guy restore this one and clean it up. I appreciate your advice!

Steve G.

Steve,
Your mdl 57 appears to be an all original example of Waltham's first successful watch.
If you want to clean the case but not polish it try the old standby for cleaning dials (Comet Bath cleaner) Just spray it on and scrub it with an old tooth brush. Rinse and clean again with dish detergent. This will clean the crud and most of the the patina without giving it a bright polished look.
If you desire to learn more about your mdl 57 check out Ron Price's site.

http://www.pricelessads.com/m57/monograph/index.html

Thanks for your help, Edward.

Steve G.

Steve,

Although Patina is important for many antique items, it really isn't correct when it comes to watches.

The dirt and particles in an old watch will only destroy it, so it's best to get it cleaned up, and repaired as soon as possible.

When it comes to the case.

Cleaning the case is also a must. Patina in this instance, does nothing for the value of the watch, and cleaning it will add to it's value for sure. It will also make sure that no hidden particles, will get into the movement, and destroy any repairs you may have done.

Patina is all about proof of age, when it comes to watches, we already have proof of when they were made, so no need for the Patina.

The cleaner the better.

I think it's unanimous then! Thanks again.

Steve

PS I was so busy giving my opinion, I forgot to mention, that you have a WONDERFUL Civil War Era watch there, and you just can't say enough about those fantastic heavy cases like the one you have there.

Really great find, Congratulations!

I'm a polisher myself. I vote for case restoration. What would be the use of having a well restored movement housed in a case that looks like my next door neighbor's house?

I don't mind a little polish here an there, but speaking of curb appeal, as any realtor will tell you, is the first key to listing a property....

However, somtimes these old 'Craftsman' homes will fool the h....out of you, look like the dickens from the street but once inside, a whole other world.... the same with our watches, dosen't hurt to polish to get the old boy looking halfway decent but we do need to remember this is not a youngster we're dealing with....

Regards,
Jerry

Thats why I have a Green Stucco house. to keep the property tax assessor happy! Meanwhile this is the 5th year I have enjoyed watching my watt hour meter run backwards.

Dave,

What's under the the tarp? Looks like a vette maybe.

Steve