Elgin/Father Time Ball/PUGH Restored! A Beauty!

June 30, 2008, 23:44

David Abbe

With an excellent 21 Jewel Father Time RR Grade 454 movement in a Ball PUGH case that is only case-marked by this watch! Did Ball approve their name on Jeweler's cases for certain RR Grade "non-ball" watches? ANYBODY have an explanation.

July 01, 2008, 03:15

Donald Trumble

David,

The connection between Pugh Brothers and Ball was that Pugh Jewelers were Ball Time Inspectors in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. There are more references to this connection and Lindell mentions they were also an Elgin distributor in one of these topics:

https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=search&reqWords=Pugh+Brothers

If your movement was original to that case, might it have been a replacement bought at Pugh Brothers?

Don

July 01, 2008, 16:00

David Abbe

A very interesting point. One of my carry watches is a17 Jewel Bunn "Loaner" that is ALSO in a Ball marked Case which has on the other side the Watchmaker's name, city, and Loaner number.

As both of these watches appear to be quite original to their cases (and I think I have a few other "Ball Model" cased RR watches) this would present some evidence that Ball certifification by case mark was somehow allowed to those qualified by Ball as Inspectors.

Any more thoughts on this?

July 01, 2008, 16:07

David Abbe

The Case Back marked for Mr. Bauer who was also a registered RR Watch Inspector for some time. Oddly I could not find Pugh Bros on my (Frauenhof) Watch Inspectors list.

Both of these watches show considerable time in service, and BOTH are very very accurate still. I gotta Clean that Elgin, but it's kinda scary that with only nicotine as lubricant it runs RR accurate!

July 01, 2008, 17:08

Lindell V. Riddle

It is probably reasonable to conclude that marked as Ball Model Cases were distributed through Ball Time Inspectors as part of their dealer arrangement. The advertisement below from the early 1950s shows more of the Elgin connection that Don mentioned in his post.

I'll take a dozen and pay them up-front...

July 07, 2008, 21:43

Sheila Gilbert

David,
I found a Chris Bauer in the 1920 NY Census that was a Carpenter for the Railroad! He was 60 yrs old at the time. Will try to find information about him at an earlier date.

July 07, 2008, 21:59

Sheila Gilbert

I also found A J Scrivens, he was a laborer for the Railroad too. Found in the 1920 Census.

July 07, 2008, 22:38

David Abbe

Actually, I found this Chris Bauer a RR Watch Inspector in the Mound ILL RR marshalling area. I expect that he was quite busy. I am most interested in what you know about Mr. Scrivens, as 30 year medals must have come hard in those days. Just surviving that long an employment was a feat!

July 18, 2008, 19:50

David Abbe

The Pugh Bros Ball cased Elgin Father Time cleaned up beautifully!

July 18, 2008, 19:51

David Abbe

Runnin RR Grade to deserve the Ball/Pugh Label on the case!

July 18, 2008, 19:52

David Abbe

. . . . and when I got all the tobacco stain off the 30 year medal, it turned up to be coin silver! So it goes with the watch. This joins my "carry" collection

October 28, 2009, 14:17

Tom Brown

David

You might already have this info., I was searching for some information & this posting popped up so I thought while I was here I would see what I could find on Mr. Scrivens.

Below is his WWII Draft card, it is hard to make out but it states he was employed by Bessemer & Lake Erie RR. He is listed as Arcus John Scrivens, he lived at 19 Canal St., Greenville, Mercer, Pa., he was born April 19, 1882.

Arcus died July 12, 1960 in San Luis Obispo Ca.

Tom

October 28, 2009, 14:18

Tom Brown

Here is the back of the card

October 28, 2009, 14:22

Tom Brown

This is the 1938 City Directory page for Greenville Mercer County Pa.

October 28, 2009, 15:48

Lindell V. Riddle

Tom, you are amazing, this is very, very interesting!

I remember knowing a John Scrivens when I was very young, he was one of my dad's friends. Having been born and raised in Greenville, Pennsylvania, I also knew others in the Scrivens family including a man I recall as being John's son, I played and went to school with Margaret "Maggie" Scrivens, who if I remember correctly would have been John's granddaughter. At one point the Scrivens family resided in our neighborhood at a South Mercer Street address. Their house fronted on South Mercer, a corner lot and we lived on Columbia Avenue, which meant our house on Columbia was diagonally across the street from the Scrivens' side and back yard.

About the draft card, Mr. Scrivens would have likely had an exemption from being drafted in WWII as he was employed by the B&LE Railroad which was considered a vital defense industry. My dad was also employed there and he had such an exemption, check this topic "South Bend, Not Approved for RR Service?" for more about my dad and his South-Bend watch that was fully approved for use on the railroad during the war.

The information on Mr. Scrivens is a "small world" moment for me!

Lindell

November 04, 2009, 21:00

David Abbe

Tom and Lindell, thank you for your help in learning more about Mr Scrivens, this watch, the railroad and the history behind them.

Lindell helped connect me to a very talented artist who has done a fine rendition of the famous bridge also shown on the medal. I am in touch with him to get one of these prints to assemble a nice framed set holding the watch, the medal, Mr. Scrivens Draft Card, and the picture that ties it all together. More as this progresses. I am going to try to locate the Scrivens family too.